Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey
I got a question about vinyl film. I am going to home depot tommorow do you think they will have it, Because you said something about a sign shop, i think. Is vinyl film sticky on one side or do i have to glue it on the wood? Is there anything else I should know before buying vinyl film, like a certain kind, texture, I just really dont want to buy a lot of vinyl film and cant use it because I got the wrong type. Thanks for all your help.
JonathanM

It won't be at home depot. You could get a vinyl contact paper there, which I know chris has used successfully in the past.

You can order this vinyl film from mass distributors, or get it off ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46741&item=7508460018&rd=1
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-Chris

0.1 Licorice Stick Black Rat
1.0 Black Rat
0.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauty
1.0 Green Tree Python
0.1 Texas Bairds Rat

The educated are the few. The uneducated are the masses.

North American Rat / Corn Snake Care Sheet

Hopefully Bryan139 will see this and reply as well. He's the poster who turned me onto this stuff and its his girlfriend who has provided much of the detailed information.

But I have since been researching it as much as possible, including e-mailing friends of friends who work in the sign industry, so I believe I can share some helpful information. I was lucky to find one such person who did a major project for a zoo that needed graphics inside of enclosures, which I felt was especially helpful information.

I am going to home depot tommorow do you think they will have it?

No, definately not.

Is vinyl film sticky on one side or do i have to glue it on the wood?

Almost all vinyl films are self-adhesive, but there are some that still require a separate adhesive. I'm sure you can get all that figured out at a sign shop. More on adhesives later.

What I don't know is how much the sign shop will charge you. I plan to order a whole roll and sell any leftover to posters here on the forum. When buying an entire roll it will actually be cheaper than contact paper.

Is there anything else I should know before buying vinyl film

The cost of these films is related to how UV-resistant they are in a direct sunlight application and, in some cases, how well they adhere to irrgegular surfaces. For example, some of the more expensive vinyl films can be applied to painted concrete block and form to the texture quite well.

I don't think that feature is worth the extra money as most of the surfaces we use it on should be fairly smooth.

Regarding the UV resistance, don't worry about paying for that either. Even the cheapest vinyl films are rated for 4 years use in a vertical application in direct sunlight. You'll never duplicate that in an indoor reptile enclosure, even if you're using a powerful UVB bulb.

However, the products with higher UV ratings do have stronger adhesives which could be beneficial in some ways. But from the information Bryan provided me even this seems trivial. The people in the sign industry agreed. There is no advantage to the more expensive films for what we do. The only exception being some of the films made for decorating vehicles, but those tend to be quite expensive.

For example, Bryan covered a sheet of plywood with a cheap, 5-year vinyl and then later decided to cut that sheet down. He said it held up great when cut with his saw. With siliconed edges I don't forsee us needing a stronger adhesive/vinyl than that in a reptile cage.

One last thing on adhesives. If you're applying this to the inside of an already assembled cage, it might be very difficult to get the pieces to fit perfect and go on flat without bubbles, etc.

As I understand it some of the adhesives on vinyl film are water based. What this means is that you can spray a very small amount of water onto the surface of the cage interior before applying the vinyl. You may even want to include the smallest amounts of dish soap.

What this does is allow you to move the film around and get it perfect. It also allows you to squeegee and air pockets that form underneath out of the vinyl.

The ideal way to use this stuff is to apply it to panels of a cage before it is assembled. But if you can only apply to an already assembled cage I would ask and find a product that can be used with the water technique described above.

In summary, just get a less expensive vinyl film. You'll want a calendered product that is rated for 4 or 5 years.

You do not need a punched or perforated product, but it won't be a big deal if that's all you can find or get a good deal on it. The perforation only allows the film to be fed through one of those machines.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

That's pretty much covers most of it. It does work out to be cheaper than contact paper, but you have to buy so damn much of it. One thing I know is that some suppliers, not the sign shop itself, have rolls off to the side that have been returned due to a crease or something and may be willing to discount them. It's only really thru the shops that supply sign shops, but it can't hurt to look. It does take one hell of a beating. I did cut thru plywood that I had already put it down on and got a perfectly clean edge. Keep in mind the reason I was cutting it down was because I was getting a lot of bowing in the wood. I had to sit on the floor and push the bottom bins in with my feet they were so tight and didn't get any peeling or ripping at the edges even after doing that a few times. I also put a ceramic water dish over the heat source and had condensation dripping off the it for a few days with no bubbling or peeling. It wasn't exposed to the open edge though. I think if you had an exposed edge exposed to that kind of humidity it would eventually peel but that can be avoided by sealing the edges so moisture can't get behind it. I have to admit it's working perfectly so far. I forget it's on there it's been so problem free. It's probably the only thing I haven't run into problems with building this stupid thing. In any case, like Chris said, my girlfreind works for a place that deals in only that type of product. So any other questions just ask, if I don't know I can definitely find out.

I just ordered a 30"x150' roll for $97. The brand is FDC and I got it from Beacongraphics.com and received free shipping.

That's about 26 cents per sq. foot which is pretty darn good.

It's only a guess, but I'm sure that is much cheaper than any paint that would provide equal protection.

I just did a quick google search and most Contact paper seems to come in 18"x72" rolls and costs about $7-$8. I thought it was cheaper but we'll go with that price.

That would make Contact Paper about three times as expensive and I can tell you for certain it's less durable than vinyl film.

We'll see.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

After a bit more research this AM I learned more about the wet-application I mentioned.

Turns out that almost all vinyl films can be installed this way. In fact it's common enough that vinyl films that CANNOT be installed this way come with a warning of sorts.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

That's the company my girlfriend works for.

Tell her I'm trying to change my order. Turns out the product I ordered was a high gloss. The counter product from another product at Beacon is semi-gloss, but also 0.4 mil thicker and rated for one more year.

Worth the small upcharge.

Not a huge deal if I can't change it, but it would be nice. I did not get an account # or customer ID number with my order and can't login to change it.

Regardless, I'm glad to hear that my money went to your GF's company.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I made a mistake in my original post when I suggested the water-based adhesives lend themselves to wet application. I had that backwards. You only want to use the wet application method with vinyl that has solvent-based adhesive, not water-based. Again, it's the rare vinyl that can't be applied this way, so it's not a huge concern.

But I do think wet application is the way to go.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I meant to post this last night. My girl was actually the one that entered your order. she said it shipped out yesterday morning. she's gonna check if it's in the back order pile so maybe she can grab it. check your e-mail. i'm sending you her number at work.

Bryan,

Thanks. I already e-mailed her and have not heard back. She has my contact info in her inbox if she's able to do anything.

My fault for not reading up on things more thoroughly.

Chris
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)