Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I rescued a hatchling Kingsnake back in December. It was close to death but with the advice of my VET, have nursed it back to health. The problem I am having is that because of the trauma it has on it's back it is unable to eat anything bigger than a small guppy. I have been feeding this little guy (13 inches) by hand about a dozen guppies every week. He seems to be doing ok but I would like any advice on how to get it to eat on it's own. He moves without any problems but just can't seem to be able to constrict like he should. I have worked very hard to save this precious little guy and just want him to have a long and happy life. Thanks for any advice you might have...

Man what are you doing... this is a King Snake not a Water snake... they feed primarily on rodents. go to a local pet store and pick up some pinkies(new born mice). does the snake eat these guppies willingly? are you sure it's a kingsnake?
My advice get pinkies stop feeding this snake fish.

~ZF

First of all I realize that this snake should be eating rodents...I have other snakes. But because of the trauma it received before I rescued it, it is unable to eat anything larger than a guppy. I tried the pinky mouse at first but there was no way he could eat it. Just want to keep it alive. Are you suggesting that I just let it starve until it eats a pinky? I have taken it to a HERP VET and that is what he suggested (that I feed it guppies) they are high in protein and has helped this poor little guy survive his injuries. Yes I am also sure it is a King Snake hatchling...13 inches long. Thanks for your input.

starve
I didn't reply to argue with you Sir.

In no way did I imply that you should let the snake starve...

The very same way u can feed a KINGSNAKE a guppie you can cut up a pinky and feed the snake. get a pinky cut it up so that the snake can swallow it without a problem. if it has trouble going down, lubricate it with raw egg batter.

i wish you the best with your snake.

~ZF

Now that's advice I can appreciate. I didn't mean to be argumentative either. I apologize for that. I just love this little snake and want to see it grow. I will try the cut up pinky and egg batter. I will let you know what happens. Thanks again. OH and by the way...I am not a SIR. My name is Michelle and I am a 33 year old mother of 4. I hope we can still be forum friends....

sorry Miss.
and i really do wish u the best with you snake

~ZF

Michelle,

Good that you can get it to keep guppies down. I would also suggest you try getting it to take a frozen/thawed pinkie. If it can take a guppy, you can probably get a newborn pinkie down it. Try finding a local mouse breeder or petstore that can provide you with a NEWBORN pinkie (not a 12 hour old, or day old pink - you want a newborn). They are small enough that the snake should be able to get them down.
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Chris Harrison

Thanks Chris!!!

I am definately going to try that. I just hope I haven't ruined his instinctual behavior to hunt and eat rodents. I have hand fed him for about 5 months now. It is actually quite funny, I just dangle the guppy above his nose, he opens his mouth for me, I flop it in and he latches on works hard to squeeze it down. The trauma he has on his back, I think makes it hard for him to get food down. I will just keep trying. Again thank you so much for your input.

Have a Blessed Day,

It would seem strange for a kingsnake, but snakes can "imprint" on various things as food, and this one could have imprinted on fish.

If it seems to have imprinted on fish smell for food but won't go for the pinky, as morbid as this sounds, take a small frozen/thawed pinky and squash and smear a guppy, guts and all, all over the pinky, and offer the pinky as you normally would the guppy.

If this works, in time he will begin to assiociate the pinky on sight as food and will take it without being "tricked". Of course then the smell of rodent will also imprint and then he'll take rodents with no problems from there.

This is the method we often use to get juvenile indigos snakes (that prefer cold-blooded prey like fish and frogs) feeding on pinky mice. It usually works very well.

Of course try the non-fish-flavored pinky first...

Good luck

I am a D.V.M. and I am not sure by your post....but did your D.V.M. recommend fish for the Kingsnake ? If he/she did, please tell him/her to stick to dogs/cats or whatever species they treat on a routine basis and leave the reptile advice to experienced herp veterinarians. Never ceases to amaze me how many vets give "advice" and "treat" species they know nothing about. I do not give avian advice as I am not experienced or trained to do so at the levels these animals demand. It is not 1965 anymore....clients demand expertise and sound advice....and more importantly do it for the animal....My #1 "pet peeve"

Amen Brother. Preach on. I went to a Vet that told me that he had "extended herp knowledge" and had treated "100s of snakes". It took me about 5 minutes to realize I knew more about the medical need of reptiles than he did. That is pretty poor cuz I have very little medical knowledge. But he was more than willing to treat my snake and I found out later that a number of people lost snakes after visiting him.
Thanks Jason

Thanks for posting, I had an internal parasite "scare" and brought samples to a vet who literally advertises they specialize in exotics. For 150 bucks they shined a light in my snakes eye, ran his thumb down it's belley and opened its mouth. Before bringing the snake in I met the doctor and told him of my concerns. He basically chewed me out about how it was basically my husbandry[which it was not]. He was naling me for 30 bucks for a fecal and I had over 100 snakes at the time. After I spent a few hundred bucks I learned how to do it myself and actually found cocidia that they missed. I also suggested a cloacal smear which he refused to do, unless I paid well over 200 dollars per snake. Evrything was money money money with no garuntees. Now the good news. I drove 7 hours round trip to see a REAL herp vet. He did several fecals for FREE, and did the smears. 2 of the snakes had Bacterial infections. He showed me how to inject meds, gave me a long lesson that took up over an hour of his time, and the snakes fully recovered. I paid about 300 bucks including the cost for meds and syringes. The point is to merely say that was money well spent is like saying nothing at all. I still speak with him and he is always enthusiastic about helping snake owners properly care for thier animals. Finding the right vet may be a hassle, but these snakes deserve the best. It was by far the best 300 bucks I ever spent. Cheers to the serious herp vets! Tom Stevens

I agree that a guppie diet longterm is not good advice but I dont see where that was what was prescribed. We have to look at what Kings eat in the wild. Well they eat just about everything from turtle eggs to lizards, snakes, mammals and maybe even the occasional fish if the opportunity presented itself. So just because this Vet said try guppies its not akin to having a Iguana eating a mouse diet when its a herbivore. Im guessing that diet was suggested because guppies are tiny and would cause the least amount of stress to the back injury. There are no pinkies as small as feeder guppies so I can think of nothing outside of tube feeding that would have worked. Now did Michelle keep the snake on guppies too long ? Probably, but she may have not known any better and was at least looking for advice.

Keith
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Keith,

I got a frozen newborn pinkie...cut it up in tiny pieces and my little kingsnake did pretty good getting most of it down. He can only eat small bits at a time due to his injury. Anyway, I appreciate all of the input and advice here. I truly didn't mean to cause so much debate. Just want what's best for my little friend.

Michelle

Did you ever try and giving him a large meal just to se if he can pass it? The abilty of snakes (even healed injured snakes)to swallow large items may surprise you.

Keep up the good work !

If you get stuck feeding fish make sure you are useing guppies and not goldfish. Goldfish have something in their slime coat that has been hinted to break down vitamin E and cause skin problems in snakes. I don't know how accurate it is, but better safe than sorry. As for other food items you said that you have other snakes. So you can try cutting the tails off large mice or medium rats. Rats are better becuase they have meatier tails. Pinks as stated by everyone else would be better but if the girth is to much you can try the tails of adult rodents. If you do feed the tails the guppies would be a good secondary food as the tails are not a complete diet by any means. Neither are the fish which is why everyone is adviseing against it. Being a vet is not all that is required to give good answers. I have heard of some real stupid things come out of the mouths of vets. This is not the case here if your snake couldn't eat pinks but he/she should also advised you to use some suppliment. You may want to try to feed some high calcium fish food to the guppies right before you feed the king. Good luck and keep us updated. Also what happened to the snake to begin with. What damage was done?
Thanks Jason

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the input. I am not too sure as to what happened to this snake, but there is a definate trauma to his back. Maybe he was stepped on or perhaps something tried to eat him. There is a boney part that sticks up off his spine. He can move ok so I know his back isn't broken. It is hard to explain, something you would just have to see to understand. My hubby just brought home a frozen newborn pinky. I will thaw it and try feeding it a bit later after the kids go to bed....(on't want them to get grossed out or upset) I will keep you posted on what happens...

Talk to you soon,

Michelle

From the looks of it his back is broken. A friend of mine had a yellow rat with a simular trauma from being closed in a house door. The poor lady opened the door to see why it didn't close and the yellow rat dropped on her head. She then called for a snake rescue and my buddy showed up. The damn thing live for years. It didn't grow much and was only about 30" when he got it. I also saw a Mamba at a wholesaler that got slammed in its drawer. It had a worse break and it lived for quite awhile as well. As far as I know both snakes are still alive so there is hope.
As far as diet, go with what ever works but try to give your snake a calcium supplement to help in whatever healing it can do for itself. Snakes are amazing creatures when it comes to healing themselves. Like I said above the guppies are not a complete diet. Feed them well before you feed the king. Also calis will eat anything so you have lots of choices. In the early days of snake keeping some guys used sliced beef heart with calcium dust covering it. They had animals for ten years on that for a diet. I know of people that slice up chicken breast both raw and cooked. The thing to remeber is that sliced meat is lacking in alot of nutrients. If you are forced to be crative in feeding then supplement alot.
Good Luck
Jason

Jason,

If his back is broken, would he still be able to move? Anyhow, I got about half of the pinky mouse down him just fine. I will try the other half today. I guess if I have to keep cutting up pinkies to ensure his health then that is what I will do. Thanks for all of your encouragement. I truly do appreciate it.

Have a great day~

Michelle

Hey Jason,

I have a couple pics of my california kingsnake...but I don't know how to load them into a post. If you would like to see them I can send them to your email address. The pics show the trauma pretty good. Let me know.

Michelle

Jason,

I figured out how to upload the pics to the photo gallery...you can check them out there.

Michelle