Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I wanted to clarify a few general commonly accepted beliefs.

Peruvian and colombians are the largest of the boas with peruvians being a little bigger (in general).

The conclusion was that "salmons" look the way they do because they were the sabogae crossed with colombians. Seems like... for example... if you keep breeding the jungle 66% diamond pythons or 88% diamonds back to each other enough you eventually end up with an almost pure diamond. Is that whats going on with "super salmons" looking like sabogae. This brings me to my last question and this can be like a mini POLL

How big are the salmons and super salmons topping out at?

Salmons and Supers are reaching the same sizes as other Colombian morphs. Salmons and Orange Tails (the two common hypomelanistic lines) were created by crossing a Panamanian Hypo with a Colombian. There is no Sabogae in there. The only Sabogae in the U.S. came in relatively recently from a Serpentarium in Costa Rica, the only program ever given permission to collect from the Pearl Island archipelago (sp?). Rich, and John from Salmonboa.com and Brandon from SummitReptiles.com worked together under a common name to bring the animals in and reproduce them for the first time in the U.S. If you look at pictures of the matriarch Salmon she is very dark redish BCI.

Some salmons take on a unique look simply for the way they were selectively bred. It is common with that line to lose pattern with each generation, but there are F4 with bold patterns. Jeff Gee bred his animal differently and as a result the Orange Tails look differnt and have heavier patterns (in general).

Peruvian BCC are the largest of Boa constrictor ssp. Although it is more common to see very large Surinam BCC, this is due to the large time frame for Peruvian BCC to reach full size. Colombian BCI typically do not get as large as any BCC, although they can. The Colombians that do reach large proportion are true Colombian BCC from Eastern Colombia (VERY uncommon in culture).

A Gee line Orange Tail (F1) and Ihle Salmon (F4). The Salmon in no longer mine.

By whom?the most gullible perhaps.By & large,I'd agree with Chris' post,(only a couple of minor contentions on a couple of points,but,not worth getting off track for. ) Sabogae most likely look the way they tend to for the simple logical reason that they probably share a common ancestral link to mainland Panamanian stock.(?) I find it difficult to consider that they magically sprouted from their native island's rocks & soil,and,then managed to "drift away",and, populate the entire mainland??? I suppose it could happen,but,I'd bet against it being factual.I also do not believe that someone secretly smuggled Sabogae off the island in a sinister "cross-breeders plot"to create "hypos" as we know them today,or,even as we knew them 10 years ago! (*lol* sorry it just didn't happen.) some people just get so wrapped up in "conspiracy theories",and,thinking every "morph" was the result of a "cross" of some sort,that they lose touch with the simple fact that morphalogical mutation is a basic property of life on planet Earth,you can intergrate a genetic mutation into a "cross",but,"crossing" subspecies without a specific genetic characteristic doesn't make a "morph"...and,as far as the Carpet X Diamond analogy is concerned,that is a bunch of garbage as well! no matter how many times,or,percentages you "backcross",or,"re-mix" you'll NEVER end up with "pure" carpets,or,diamonds EVER again. you may end up with animals that you can pass off as "pure" this,or,that,(if that's what you're into?)but,they'll always be intergrades,that's not a personal opinion,that is just plain FACT.In regards to "size" there is much more to consider in broad general catagorizations,than simply "locality,race,or,subspecies" since any of these could produce individuals which may have a genetic propensity to influence future generations one way,or,the other to either extreme.(it's kind of like saying all people from New Jersy are 6'10" and, weigh 275 lbs. just because you met a few that fit those qualifications...seem reasonable to become "commonly accepted" as fact?)

To be a emotionally charged response? Im trying to imagine if I was sitting at a herp show among a group of boa enthusiasts and I said what I posted, would someone just turn their chair look at me and respond to my questions in the way you did? I would think that would be a little innapropriate. I enjoyed Chris Gilberts response...simple to the point and without all the "" and !! I would think this would be more reasonable way to respond to someone asking for clarification...don't you?

Im not into conspiracy theories, I never used the word "fact".I also wrote "almost pure" not "pure". Im not hung up on the idea of morphs, and my post was humbly titled "is this all correct" not "now hear this". Why did I even take the bait.

I really appreciate your opinion, im not opposed to you, thanks for your response Rainshadow. Dont forget to breathe. Sorry my analogy was garbage...I shouldnt have said general commonly accepted beliefs, I should have said ideas that I had in my head.

Heres a picture of my "morphs" that i sold so I could own a lovely pair of eastern indigos.

If you got the impression that I was pounding away at my keyboard without breathing...I was not refering to you in regards to the "conspiracy theorist",but,rather the person who first insinuated that "hypos" originated from Sabogae.the only reason I bothered to post at all is that it's rather disturbing to think of one person's unsubstantiated rumor becoming "commomly accepted belief". if any emotion was misinterpreted please accept my apology.I use punctuation to underscore thoughts conveyed with words,not to make anyone feel bad.not everything posted here in disagreement,or,intelligent conversation should be equated to "a flame"...there is fact,there is fiction,and,there will alawys be speculation,and,our involvement here should be their separation through conversation,and,the expression of opinion.(which sometimes requires the use of punctuation.)...p.s. I'm not opposed to you either,and,for what it may be worth,I gave up all my Indigos(as well as everything else.) to work with Boa constrictors,and,if I talk too seriously about them it is a reflection of my comittment to them,rather than any intended disrespect to you.

You want to start something? Just messing man. How is it going Tim? I haven't seen you around for awhile! Ready to ship the striped suri to me yet?

Take Care,
Kemper

SABOGAE

SALMON

I don't think these animals are related.

Take Care,
Brandon Weik
Summit Reptiles
summitreptiles.com

That picture comparison speaks volumes. I guess I had a brain fart...Can you say that word? Thanks for clarifying Rainshadow.

Thanks for posting Brandon. Your salmons are an example of the strong and beautifull pattern so many are discarding. I love the Sabogae as well, which island did your bloodline originate from?

I don't know if you ever watched Survivor, but on the Pearl Island show, Rupert caught a baby boa, a Sabogae!

>>Thanks for posting Brandon. Your salmons are an example of the strong and beautifull pattern so many are discarding. I love the Sabogae as well, which island did your bloodline originate from?
>>
>>I don't know if you ever watched Survivor, but on the Pearl Island show, Rupert caught a baby boa, a Sabogae!

That was Tim,Just thought Id let you know Chris!LOL,Take care Bro!Eric[Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

At first I thought I goofed. I saw Summit Reptiles and made an assuption. Brandon posted the pictures though.

>>At first I thought I goofed. I saw Summit Reptiles and made an assuption. Brandon posted the pictures though.

Your right my bad,I thought you were refering to Rainshadow!Sry!Eric[Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

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