Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what would variant color mutation be worth in dart frogs?

Nothing.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

wow, so a hypo, melanistic, leucistic, or albino would be worth less?

I know people who will pay a premium for albino frogs, but they are not willing to pay too much (less than 2X the price of the regular frog). Some are against breeding for this trait and may boycott a seller who does.
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Josh Willard
www.joshsfrogs.com

The basic accepted stance on this would be; if you happen to have a frog that is hypo, albino, whatever, and you separate or TRY to keep or make that trait stand out, you are not doing what nature would. There ARE a very few groups of hypo frogs out there in nature, but VERY FEW. If a hypo shows up , keep it in with the general population. If it breeds with a "normal" pigmented frog there is a chance this would have happened in nature. The thought that albinos do not survive in nature is not always true, they can and do survive, but the trait should not be selectively breed. Basically selective breeding in the Dart "hobby" is VERY frowned upon, as it should be. Josh mentioned boycotting, I would prefer changing the mind and habits of the selective breeder.
Good question.

Rich Frye

WWW.FRYEBROTHERSFROGS.COM

I understand, appreciate, and respect your line of thought. I had no intention of getting into this kind of discussion on here. My question was simply to ask if mutated color would be something that the dart frog community would embrace as the rest of the herptoculture industry has (albinos and other color morphs of snakes and lizards that is)? I would think that an albino or hypo dart frog would be very spectacular?

A discussion follows some posts. Selective breeding is worth discussing. It is an important part of the Dart "hobby".
The snake hobby has been ruined (designer snakes)in the eyes of some .
I would say that every hypo I have seen (albinos also) looked as if you took a very cool colorful jewel and faded the cool color out of it.
There are a few notable froggers out there who are enamored with hypos. There are a few breeders selling hypos. Selective breeding is one of the things (along with hybrids) that needs at least a bit of policing in the "hobby". A "heads up" at the very least.

Rich Frye

It's nice to see a fasciate of the reptile hobby actually happy with what nature has created.

Perhaps it's because darts are already so perfect

It is also because at this very moment someone on another DENDRO board is advertising and TRYING to sell Dart hybrids.
If this person would post his/her real name like any reputable frog breeder he/she would promptly be drummed out of the hobby for perpetrating one of THE worst Dart sins.
This IS a topic of great import.

Rich Frye

www.fryebrothersfrogs.com

My answer of "nothing" was more curt than I intended. I pushed the post button before I thought further. This question is always worthy of an answer with reasons, so I apologize. I think the reasons have been pretty much outlined by others that feel as I do. I just like to see the original lines propagated in the hobby because they are often threatened in the wild. It's not as if we are ever going to restock the wild habitats with the frogs we've bred in the hobby, but it just seems more responsible and ethical to preserve the originals as closely as possible. This is opinion, and all of the reasons are difficult to articulate, since some of them are just a gut feeling. On the other hand, I don't feel the same way about designer snakes and lizards, which is probably hypocritical. I simply know less about them. Maybe it's because they have been established in the herp hobby longer, so seem more like domestic pets to me.

Many dart breeders select for brighter colors or more "interesting" patterns, which may sometimes stem from minor mutations in captives. I'm frankly unable to reason out where the line of "purity" should be drawn. The different color morphs of the same species in the wild stemmed from mutations and isolated development--not always total physical isolation, as they can share territories in some places without apparent crossing.

I don't understand the fascination and preference many hobbyists have for albino animals in particular, but again that's personal preference and a concern that the full expression of albinism doesn't often fare as well.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus