Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I commented to bd boy's "mom" that it's weird how I can see thru his belly skin and see his insides and she said it is a mutation - what can you folks tell me? He is 2 months old and here is his pic

-----
0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - For now his name is Beardie Boy
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula (no name yet)
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha
Chameleon Help & Resource Info

Here is some thing I wrote on another board a few months ago. I will probably take some heat but these are my current working hypotheses

Currently I work with all three of the proven genetic morphs (Translucents, Hypopastels, Smoothies)

Translucents =(recessive) a form of albinism were there is a a reduction or absence of the white pigment in the base layer of their skin. They have black eyes and have translucent look to their all or portions of their bodies.
Here is what Paul Morlock had to say about this

Quote fromPaul Morlock:

The translucent dragons are a form of albinism. They are missing white or have a reduction in white. I did some reasearch and to my knowledge there are no other cases of animals missing white. The irridiphores are responsible for makeing this color so technically these animals are Hypoirristic. The white is the base skin color so when you remove it the skin is transparent. The skin color in dragons is layered,white being the base,red yellow or orange next and then black on top of that. It seems that as the animals grow they tend to lose the translucence because the red,yellow,and oranges cover most of the body. The animals you have seen posted previously were produced by Sandfire Dragon Ranch. The original animals were purchased from overseas 2 years ago. The group was split in half, half bred to our Sandfire line and half to our pastel line. The resulting hets were then bred to produce the animals you've been seeing. As of now we still have not bred trans to trans. The black eyes do not seem to be directly related to the translucent mutation,they just happend to pop up at the same time. The hypo translucents I have posted are a completely different bloodline produced by myself 2 years ago. These animals are interesting because they are missing 2 out of the 3 skin colors, one step away from true albino.
"almost albino"

Hypopastel = This is a hypomelanistic(co-dominant or recessive) animal with clear nails (recessive). These animals show blue-grey were other dragons are showing dark pigment. I personally believe that the clear nails is a separate trait because I have seen animals that were not hypomelanistic but had clear nails. I think the reason why they show up together 90% of the time is because the genes are either on the same locus therefore segregating together almost 100% of the time or maybe the clear nailed animals that are not hypomelanistic are a whole other gene in itself.

Smoothies = basically have not even hit the market yet but they will this year. This is reported to be a recessive trait. This is the reduction of the large scalation on the back. They also have a reduced number of nuchal and lateral spikes. This makes for a kind of muttled color or appearance on the back of any dragon possesing this recessive trait.

Hypopmelanistic(Snow) = A line bred dragon that was originally started with a clear nailed animal that Was very light. Kevin Dunne did not breed for the clear nail traits so most now have dark nails. These dragons start out like a normal dragon and most get lighter as they get older. The biggest difference in these guys and Hypopastels is that you can pick out hypopastels from birth in comparison to their het siblings. Also Snow dragons usually can get very dark and look almost like a normal dragon hypopastels cannot or to a much lesser degree show that dark pigment. I think that Snow dragons are lightly pigmented line bred animals. Whether or not they is any sort of gene(s) that is in play here that is a different story.

Marketed Leucistics = Very simply put they are Hypopastels that drop their color very early on in life. Hypopastels have been bred to Leucistics and the result was a bunch of hatchlings that held there pastel colors until a later age, they also all had clear nails. I will let you draw your own conclusions. I personally think that the biggest difference is that our hypopastels have had a lot of color bred into them over here in the States. The founding Leucistics came from England where the dragons are far less colorful and the Leucistics were probably just came from dragons with very little color therefore they don't carry that with them.

Again this is just my opinions
-Randy
-----
www.AlphaDragonZ.com

____

>>>>Translucents =(recessive) a form of albinism were there is a a reduction or absence of the white pigment in the base layer of their skin. They have black eyes and have translucent look to their all or portions of their bodies.
>>Here is what Paul Morlock had to say about this
>>
>>Quote fromPaul Morlock:
>>
>>The translucent dragons are a form of albinism. They are missing white or have a reduction in white. I did some reasearch and to my knowledge there are no other cases of animals missing white. The irridiphores are responsible for makeing this color so technically these animals are Hypoirristic. The white is the base skin color so when you remove it the skin is transparent. The skin color in dragons is layered,white being the base,red yellow or orange next and then black on top of that. It seems that as the animals grow they tend to lose the translucence because the red,yellow,and oranges cover most of the body. The animals you have seen posted previously were produced by Sandfire Dragon Ranch. The original animals were purchased from overseas 2 years ago. The group was split in half, half bred to our Sandfire line and half to our pastel line. The resulting hets were then bred to produce the animals you've been seeing. As of now we still have not bred trans to trans. The black eyes do not seem to be directly related to the translucent mutation,they just happend to pop up at the same time. The hypo translucents I have posted are a completely different bloodline produced by myself 2 years ago. These animals are interesting because they are missing 2 out of the 3 skin colors, one step away from true albino.
>>"almost albino"
>>
>>***** Well, I have to say here that in the T positive albinos (according to the website I founds info) dark eyes are characteristic. Also it says that orange is more prominantly displayed. My personal opinion is that translucents are T albinos. I don't know how to explain the genetic removal of the white base color as the only thing I can find on Irridiphore function says that they control the greenish and brownish coloration I believe? Would have to double check that as it's been so long since I've read it........However, if this was true, I believe that would raise suspissions of the Greenie line being hyper irridiphoric.************

>>Hypopastel = This is a hypomelanistic(co-dominant or recessive) animal with clear nails (recessive). These animals show blue-grey were other dragons are showing dark pigment. I personally believe that the clear nails is a separate trait because I have seen animals that were not hypomelanistic but had clear nails. I think the reason why they show up together 90% of the time is because the genes are either on the same locus therefore segregating together almost 100% of the time or maybe the clear nailed animals that are not hypomelanistic are a whole other gene in itself.
>>
******** (wringing hands evily and feeling onry...LOL) I have to completely shoot down the thought of a seperate gene controlling the hypomelanism and clear nails. Sorry, Randy not trying to be an ass but there are certain expected outcome when your working with genetic traits. If you breed a het to a het you get 25% hypo-pastel/clearnails. If you were to breed a double het to a double het you would only get 1 animal out of, is it 32 or 16, that would show both traits simultaneously. A co-dominate hypomelanisistic view of this mutation with recessive clear nails would be WAY off base. I think you'll agree that from a het to het breeding you'll get clearnailed hypopastels and none of the other babies will have clear nails or appear obviously differant in the way of mutation. That alone dispells both the seperate gene theory and the codom theory in this mutation. My opinion is simple recessive with the clearnails being completely dependant upon the hypomelanistic trait displayed in the hypo-pastel/leucistic/clearnailed hypo-snow lines.**************
>>Smoothies = basically have not even hit the market yet but they will this year. This is reported to be a recessive trait. This is the reduction of the large scalation on the back. They also have a reduced number of nuchal and lateral spikes. This makes for a kind of muttled color or appearance on the back of any dragon possesing this recessive trait.
>>
********Can't wait to see these guys start growing up and checking out the color in them. They look really neat and soft to the touch too.**********

>>Hypopmelanistic(Snow) = A line bred dragon that was originally started with a clear nailed animal that Was very light. Kevin Dunne did not breed for the clear nail traits so most now have dark nails. These dragons start out like a normal dragon and most get lighter as they get older. The biggest difference in these guys and Hypopastels is that you can pick out hypopastels from birth in comparison to their het siblings. Also Snow dragons usually can get very dark and look almost like a normal dragon hypopastels cannot or to a much lesser degree show that dark pigment. I think that Snow dragons are lightly pigmented line bred animals. Whether or not they is any sort of gene(s) that is in play here that is a different story.
>>
>>Marketed Leucistics = Very simply put they are Hypopastels that drop their color very early on in life. Hypopastels have been bred to Leucistics and the result was a bunch of hatchlings that held there pastel colors until a later age, they also all had clear nails. I will let you draw your own conclusions. I personally think that the biggest difference is that our hypopastels have had a lot of color bred into them over here in the States. The founding Leucistics came from England where the dragons are far less colorful and the Leucistics were probably just came from dragons with very little color therefore they don't carry that with them.
>>
**********(growing horns...lol) It was to my understanding back when I purchased a hypo in early 99 from Kevin that the hypo/snow lines were a seperate mutation from the clearnailed hypo/snows. This is due to the fact that the Original founding animal DIDN"T have clear nails but a baby was produced in the F2 or F3 generation that had all clear nails. That male started many of his lines that produce the clear nails now, such as the sunburst. This is the reason I strongly believe that the hypo/snow gene is not an inheretid trait but a co-dominate form of hypomelanism only effecting the dermal melanophores. Granted that a genetic mutation can happen in any clutch, any bloodline, I still find it quite intrigueing that the clear nailed snow line sprung from the hypo/snow line. I also find it intrigueing that the Lucy lines drop color much like a hypo/snow does. Quickly as you stated. Just my thoughts for your consideration.... I could of course be way off base on all of this and more than likely am on something....LOL

Later,
Robert Wood
>>
-----
Great spirits have always been recieved with violent opposition by mediocre minds. Albert Einstein