Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ive seen posts regarding mixed community vivariums, mixed herptiles. Are there any rules against mixing peasfull detritus-feeding aquatic bugs, fish, frogs and lizards toghether in order to recreate a complete boxed-ecosystem. Specific Biotopes are always my goal, and Ive mixed natives togeter in my 125gal. It looks awsome and everyone has behaved the way Ive expected. I kept the animals multi-dimentional nitch in mind, and recreated it. At times the chorus frogs (Pseudacris regilla) eat some of the ripple-bug and but they(the bugs) re-stabilize them-selves. The Scuds and Daphnia are sometimes eaten some of the newt larvae, but again they re-appear. I found leopard frogs(introduced) so I added tadpoles in last year. I have not seen any aggrression from the water-boatmen and the whirligig beatles only go after the small crustacians. All the animals go through a 2month quarentine period in groups or 5 (in order to observe them better) before going to the main system. I used sand from a local creek (undisturbed and private), rinsed several times over several days untill clear, and Plants from a local pet-store that look like the locals. The bottom of the tank was drilled and hooked up to a wet-dry filter then to a waterfall (Slanted and Huge). I felt that the humidity was to high for the sceloporus lizards so I didnt add them. The tank is awesome, and all the vertebrates have been thriving for a little over a year. Other bugs that occupy the tank are midges whiteflies and other so-called pests (food in my place [for the frogs]). I've tried my best on this one. Last years incident with my dicamtodonts really pissed my off, so I tried harder and waited longer for it to stabilize before there were any large (2in. tadpole) additions. I used the Bog mix recomended by Rex Searcey in Reptiles Magazine. Any thoughts out there. I want to recreate other biotopes such as south american, african, australian (Illusion using animals found in indonesia and australia) as well as anything else my imagination allows. Critics are welcome. I have reed frogs, dumpys, litoria ranaformis (or aurea?) Dendrobatids and anolis and am pretty exited to recreate more boxed eco-systems.

hey- i like- im always hearing people say dont mix species- but ive done this in my tank for 6 yrs---- where do you get your bugs and what kinds do you have in your tank-- im getting ready to build a new tank-- 210 gal-- and ive been trying to find different things to put in my enviroment-- right now i have tree frogs, fb newts, fb toads, crabs, guppies---nice to see someone else with the same idea in mind

I started a bug aquarium about 2yrs ago, most of the bugs came from there. The Whirligigs(gyrinidae), Ripplebugs(veliidae, and waterboatmen(corixidae) came from a mountain here in Napa. The creeks and ponds are located in private property that I have permition to enter explore and collect- good times!!. The waters in this area are undisturbed and unpolluted. Even so, they went thru quarintine. I dont see any of the bugs pester the frogs (if anything they avoid them) but they do go after the small Isopods and daphnia, wich re-establish themselves.

The Leopard frogs(Rana pipens) are getting larger than the Chorus Frogs (P. regilla), so I started a 40gal for the Leo's to avoid interspecific aggression and eventual predetion. I keep in mind that some sorts of aggression occur even if you dont see it, the regillas have been eating and growing large so I dont see that as the problem here-just yet. Even so this salienta mix looked awesome while it lasted. The Newts (Taricha torosa and granulosa) are still larvae and are minding their own bussiness. There is enough territory for each of the vertebrates and enough natural foods to keep them well fed. Although I do toss meadow plankton and native crickets (bred in my garage) just to make sure.

I spend hours staring at this tank and the only aggression I see is between the bugs themselves. The Flies(Diptera-Tephritidae) basically bounce around the moss and plants, but occationally I see what I assume are males fight. The Whirligigs sometimes go after the ripplebugs but never catch them. The water boatmen just swim, keep the isopod population in check, and clean the substrate. I notice the Frogs go after these aquatic bugs but always spit them out unharmed, exept for the ripplebugs who get eaten. The minnows mind their own bussiness and stay away from the frogs (once they notice them).

I have not seen any problems at all-and the potential problems will be removed (R. pipens). Although I do aggree that people are better off not mixing species, I feel there are exeptions to the rule. But an understanding of the animals nitch and the animals that inhabit that same environment is the first rule. I tried to think of everything possible and it did take months of planning and set-up before any inhabitants were added. There to sides to everything, so I still would like to hear peoples concerns just incase I missed anything.

The thing with mixed communities is that you need animals that have all the same temperature requirements. Firebelly toads are almost tropical, needing fairly warm temperatures, while firebelly newts suffer at these high temperatures and are more suseptible to death and disease.

http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

I have a paludariam with over 15 fish, southern painted turtle, 2 green basilisks, giant day gecko, 2, red eyes tree frog, 2 whites tree frogs, cuban tree frog, 3 leopard frogs 4 fire belly toads, 3 newts, salamander, all are in one enclosure 72"x30"18 and exept for a few fish that died this past year they are all acounted for and thriving

I am all for mixed community vivariums. However there are rules that I have applied for my self. Predetors are all of the same size and take the same food. They require the same habitat, but different multi-dimentional niches (were it eats, sleeps, breeds). The vivariums, nearly self-maintaining tanks were the animals never have to be disturbed, are large and provide many visual barriers. I knew that when I mixed the leopard frogs with the chorus frogs, that the Leo's would eventually have to be removed, before they started competing with the regillas. I have newts in the 120 MC vivarium wich have high "tarichatoxin" or "Tetrodotoxin" levels that would kill most animals that would try to eat them or that shares a stagnant environment(Not the case here).

I started another mixed community. Mantella baroni(or madagascarensis), Scaphiophryne marmorata, and Heterixalus alboguttatus. In a 75g. forest type. caves are provided for the mantellas especially around the pond, deep substrate for the Scaphiophryne, and large lilies, ferns, grasses and tree branches (cork) to give them all shelter. Not only are they living in this tank, but they are thriving. The misting system goes off every 4 hours (draining is provided), but rather than a fine mist it gives out heavy droplets. The mantellas and reed frogs go crazy at this time (the reed frogs call mostly in the evening when 2 of the compact flourescent ligths go off leaving a cool white standard flourescent-looks awesome-like dusk). The Scaphiophryne mind their own bussiness and spend their time eating rather than calling. As for fish-they have no place in this tank, and bugs- only ripple bugs are allowed, to eat pinhead crickets and other small feeder that drowns in the shallow pond.

Sometimes the signs of stress are not obvious, but there are a few hints. If the male frogs are not calling, or they are always a darker color than normal or if they are constantly moving (normal for some species) then over-look the environment.

I do believe that mixed community is preferreble to species tanks- In some cases. But they have to be thought-out and each animal studied before mixing them, study their environment aswell. Its alot of fun. No animal should be put to chance or live in stress just for our aesthetic enjoyment. Any one can do it as long as the rules apply.

Although most of the animals in your paludarium come from similar environments. I do have concerns about the reptiles that require warm basking sites and the amphibians that require cooler situations. The size of the tank mar rule out my response. However I also have questions about the turtle and the amphibians- a "natural" food source. I am not taking any shots at you. But I do suggest a different type of mixed community were the risks are as close to none existent (Ideally none existent period.)

Im sure your on the ball on things and know what you are doing. But I suggest that any one with questions about the subject go to Amphibiacare.com FAQ and some of the links provided. Anyone with an opinion please express it, I want to make sure that I didnt miss anything in my methods (not original im sure).