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Here is a pic of a very shy female Ivory

Awesome... Do you have any head shots?
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-Adam

HOW ABOUT THE BROTHER BREEDING A FEMALE YELLOWBELLY?

That works! Great shot. Has anyone hatched out ivory x yellowbelly yet? Or will this be the 1st year?
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-Adam

Ok so another 64,000 dollar question; whats with the granites?

the way i understand it:

ebony = yellow belly x granite (is this true or just hearsay?)
ivory = yellow belly x yellow belly

so if as you say ebony x ivory = ebonies and ivories,
im wondering if anyone knows yet what ivory x granite and ebony x granite produce.

I just cant see where the granites fit into this puzzle, and i think a lot of people are wondering if it is possible to go from a granite (with whatever) to an ivory eventually.

Many thanks!

~C~

The question is if there is a relationship between granite and yellow belly to explain the unexpected synergy of the ebony (apparent granite yellow belly combo).

I don't think the eggs have hatched yet to prove it but I'm leaning toward the suspicion that granite and yb might be alleles (different mutations of the same gene). If this is the case, then an ebony doesn't have a normal copy of the common gene and as Amir stated in the other thread Ivory X Ebony would only produce Ivory and Ebony (50/50 chance for each egg). This would also mean that it wouldn't me possible to get more than two copies of the two mutant genes combined so you could never have an Ivory granite or a homozygous granite yellow belly etc.

I suspect we might see a similar relationship between pastel and cinnamon with regards to the pewter combo.

However, it could also turn out that Yellow Belly and Granite are unrelated mutations of different genes and then Ivory X Ebony would produce eggs each with a 25% chance of being either Ivory Granite (could you tell?), Ivory, Ebony, Yellow Belly.

From this thread the question of Ivory X Yellow Belly should result in 50/50 chance Ivory or Yellow Belly eggs per the accepted theory that Yellow Belly is the heterozygous form and Ivory the homozygous form of the same single gene mutation.

thanks for the input! I was wondering about some kind of multiple allele situation (bit like the good old human blood types classic example).. im assuming from your answer that the ivory / yellow belly trait has been proven as simple recessive as opposed to co-dominant, i was rather hoping that granite and yellow belly would turn out to be codominant

so it could work something like this? (if ive understood you correctly)

for Gene 'G':

(a) = an allele (mutated form) of G
(b) = another allele (mutated form) of G
(c) = normal form

and a granite could be: (a)(c)
a yellow belly could be: (b)(c)
an ivory could be: (b)(b)
and an ebony could be: (a)(b)
and of course (c)(c) = normal..
so obviously theres one pice of the puzzle missing! What would
(a)(a) give.. unless its a lethal combination?

looking at the above and thinking about it suppose it could be 2 genes on the same chromosome or something that tend to follow each other around, my knowledge on that kinda thing is a little sketchy tho! need to go refresh me memory!

As for the (aa) combination, I will be breeding the Ebony to its mother and sister in 2006.
That should answer some questions.

Thank you for your response, Amir - the results of those breedings will be the ones i am most looking forwards to seeing i think out of all the exciting things happening elsewhere this year and next year.

Is there any chance of seeing pics of the parents of the ebony?

Congrats on the yb pastel too btw, what a stunning snake! a mutual friend of ours wasnt wrong when he said it was a nice one to look out for!

Cheers,

Chris

I think you are right on with the genotype diagram, the unknown homozygous granite, and including the possiblity of separte genes being linked by being on the same chromosome, which I forgot to mention.

"im assuming from your answer that the ivory / yellow belly trait has been proven as simple recessive as opposed to co-dominant, i was rather hoping that granite and yellow belly would turn out to be codominant"

However, if I gave you the impression that either granite or yellow belly is recessive that is wrong. We are 99% sure that yellow belly is co-dominant (or incomplete dominant if you prefer) and granite appears to be at least some kind of dominant (not yet know if completely dominant or not). If it was the term "het" throwing you off just remember that it is a genotype term and isn't exclusive to recessive mutations. It just means having an unmatched pair of genes. It doesn't mean normal looking - it just works out that way with recessive morphs.

Cheers Randy, i was pretty tired and didnt read your post properly i think.. thanks for pointing out that yb ARE codom. so techniclaly then an ivory is a "super" for the yellow belly allele, and the "super" for the granite allele has yet to be seen.. (if it looks any different)

now theres a thought - maybe theres something in the different degrees of 'granite' we are beginning to see.. i can already i think identify two very distinct types of granite ball pythons from all the pics that have been posted - those with all the speckling inside the light brown side markings, and those that have small, denser speckling (often the pigemnt blobs within the scales ) with larger dark spots inside the side markings.. if that makes sense..

Very nice looking animals. All three pics are awsome. I can not wait to see what you hatch this season.

>>Here is a pic of a very shy female Ivory
>>
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Thomas Jones
aligatorhunter@cox.net

let you take pics of them. Nice Ivory by the way.

Eric
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Bryan