Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, quick question to all you terrarium/paludarium builders out there. Over the weekend, I finished off my 55 gallon Paludarium(see picture section). I used cork bark to make the "walls" to hide the 7" false bottom. My water is now brown. So brown in fact, that you can't see through to the other side. I decided to get a filter. I picked up a Fluval 1 filter that is stated to do 50gph. There is only 7" of water in this tank, and after about 12-15 hours, the water is still brown! My question is, once the cork gets fully saturated, will it stop "bleeding", or do I need to get a more powerful filter?? PLEASE RESPOND!!

EDIT: I have since learned that this is tannic acid, is there any cure?? Also, one of my pieces of wood has some white fuzzy mold on it, will this go away, or should I remove the wood? I think it's grapewood. I have no frogs yet in this tank, but I wanted to do frogs/fish.

You don't have a problem. Neither white mold nor tannins in the water is a problem. The tannins are beneficial, for dart frogs, although they may be esthetically irritating to you. With partial water changes and such, they will eventually mellow out. Let your tank cycle, and things will change as the biological process balances out. Maintenance should consist of wiping off the glass so you can see the frogs, and removing any dead plants that haven't survived and trimming back those that over grow. Mist, feed the frogs and leave it alone otherwise. Watch and enjoy the show. A dart tank is good for at least five years without a complete take-down and revamping-- maybe more.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Ok, the mold is now turning a bit green/grey/blueish color. Is this ok?? Also, the big piece of what I think is cypress has spots of mold growing on it as well. I hear from some places that this is not a good thing, but you assure me it is. I hope it's not, because I really like the way the wood is situated in the tank. I should take some pictures to show you.

Take some pictures and post them. In the meantime, don't worry. You cannot avoid algaes (green) and molds and other fungi, (white and other colors,) in a humid set-up, no matter what you do. They will occur in any natural environment that suits them, whether you have previously attempted to sterilize it or not. They are a part of the process of biological recycling, and that's what most of us into darts design our tanks to do. These things you are seeing are not pathogens. They will not harm your dart frogs. Wipe the extraneous stuff off of the glass so you can see better, but otherwise, leave it alone and just enjoy what is happening. When you are working with something between 80 and 100% humidity, which is what darts prefer, some very surprising things may grow. They help recycle frog poop, and generally keep the tank more healthy than it would be without them. My tanks are full of algae, mushrooms (mushrooms, only at first, alas, because they are so great,) fungi, and my only dart frog losses have been from escapes, one injury and only one unexplained in six years. The oldest have been living for 6 years with all of this stuff going on. Some of the tanks have tiny snails, centipedes, isopods, and strange tiny worms that I think are some kind of beetle larva. They are often "infected" with fungus gnats, that the frogs eat up, other strange, small critters among the moss that the frogs also hunt for. I just don't go into a panic everytime I see something in a tank that has not been there (or I haven't noticed) before. It is not likely to be some kind of dart frog parasite. I do a minor clean up of slugs. I remove them when I can catch them and sometimes bait them with beer when they piss me off by damaging leaves. The frogs won't eat them and they can do some plant damage, so I generally don't like them. But I'm not going to take down the entire tank over a few slugs. I just pick them off and bait them. These also seem to come and go in a cycle.

You may lose some inappropriate plants for a humid environment, or those that have been planted in the wrong section, so if a plant dies, just remove it. If it's full of mold, it's not the mold that killed it, but the fact that it was inappropriate to the environment you put it in.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Ok, so all this occurs even without frogs and their poop? How do snails and slugs get in there?? That's interesting. I would love to see some pics of your set ups!
Here are some pics:

Thanks for sharing the interesting pictures. It looks like you have some pretty interesting stuff growing there. The black and white fungi are unusual, almost looks like a liverwort of some kind, which are fascinating. Some of it looks like it may be lichen, but this is hard to tell. The all white stuff looks like the same stuff we all get, and the rest appears to be algae. It's all just living on decaying organic matter from the logs and substrate.

Slugs and snails are usually contaminants from the plants you purchase that may contain eggs on either the leaves or attached soil from the nursery. These are the only things I go after, because they eat the plants, and some snails will eat frog eggs. One of the other contaminants you may get will be little centipedes, that are also harmless and do a lot of recylcing. I've seen some of my frogs attack and try to eat them, but spit them out in disgust, then never try it again. The numbers of these will vary. Isopods may also colonize, (sow bugs and pill bugs). These do no damage and the frogs will go for the babies if you turn over rocks so that they can find them. I have them in only one tank, and there seem to be a few in my springtail cultures.

I need to update my terrarium photos. Most of those I have posted are old pictures of relatively new set ups. You can look at them on the photo gallery here under Cages and Terrariums, and specify "slaytonp." Also look at some of Homer's. I'll try to update them in the next few days. There are a lot of others worth looking at, as well. The only limit is your own imagination. I'm posting just one example, an early photo of the paludarium, which over time, is quite different in appearance--the jungle has overgrown and needs revamping now.

Are we the only ones still here?

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

thanks for all the great info! I think we are still the only ones here I won't be adding my frogs till June, but plan on adding some fish soon, any suggestions?? I don't have a heater, what fish will do well in "room temp" water?

Can you get a small submersible aquarium heater? If you can keep your aquarium portion around 72 to 76 degrees, this will also do a lot to modify and even out the temperatures in the entire tank both winter and summer. Then you could also go with the small tetras, that also do well with the tannins. I don't have a lot of experience with fish in general. While goldfish can tolerate and even prefer lower water temperatures, you're going to want your tank warmer than that when you get your frogs. The tetras also stay small and are cleaner.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Well, the whole tank itself is right around 77 degrees. On one half, I have a flourescent light strip, but on the other side I have a strip with 2 25w "aquarium" type bulbs. Those are located over the water/waterfall area. My thinking is that will warm the water as it's being filtered back through the substrate into the tank. The thermometer is on the "cooler" side, and it reads 77. I picked up 2 bloodfin tetras, 2 glo-lite tetras, and a cory cat yesterday along with some plants. So far they all seem to be doing well. I'd honestly have to rip up the waterfall section of the tank to put in a heater. I still may if I find I am having problems, or maybe when the winter hits(I am in Rhode Island)

The golden Chinese algae eaters also help keep the algae down very well. These don't grow as large as the regular algae eaters and are prettier. For winter, if you house gets cool, you could also paste a reptile heat mat on the back behind the land background. (I've had them scortch my wood stands when I put them underneath the tank, although that's the more efficient way of doing it.) Other tetras that have survived well in my paludarium have been X-ray tetras and rummy-nosed. I have never been able to keep Neons for any length of time. It sounds like you're well on your way. I'm sorry no one else has joined us here.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

I have a question about moisture/humidity. The right side has the waterfall system that spills onto some wood, then into gravel, then through the eggcrate, and back into the water(which is at 7" deep). The right side of the tank is more or less at 90-100% humidity due to the constant flowing water.

Now, the left side of the tank does not have any type of watering system other than the level of the water under the substrate. It doesn't really seem to dry out per se, but it doesn't stay completely "wet" either. Will this be bad when I add my frogs?? I can mist that side daily, but otherwise?? Will the left side of the tank offer enough moisture/humidity? Also, on the "cooler" left side I get a temp of 73-77 deg without a heat source. The right side strip light has 2 25w aquarium bulbs that seem to "heat" up the flowing water a tad more, though I don't have a thermometer on that side. How are the temps and humidy stacking up to you?

I really don't want to have casualties due to the fact that I am dropping some good money on these frogs.

Thanks!

It sounds perfect. The frogs can choose their own humidity and temperatures with both wet and dry areas. I think you have done a great job of planning and asking questions ahead of time. I have drier areas in most of my tanks, as well. I quite frankly no longer use humitidy gauges, since the measurements largely depend upon where they are located, and I don't do anything about it anyway after the initial set-up and enclosure proves that part of it is at 80 to 100%, and you can tell the over-all humidity is high enough if there is some condensation on the glass in the mornings and algae growing on glass and logs. The frogs will know where they are most comfortable if you have a variant.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

Added a BUNCH of plants today. Tank is pretty much done in my eyes:

LEFT

MIDDLE

RIGHT

Dude the the tank looks awesome! You did a great job. What kinds of frogs are going to get?
Happy frogging
Scott

It looks great. Any dart should be happy in that. Some of the larger plants such as the Chinese evergreen might be a bit rambunctions, but anything that overgrows later on, you can always remove or trim back. I see only one possible problem with the Spanish moss, Tillandsia usneoides. There have been some reports (and one documented incident) of darts becoming entangled in this. I have a little bit of it in one of the tanks, but generally it hasn't grown well enough to worry me. You might just keep an eye on it and not let it get too gnarly.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus

strongly leaning towars Azures. Going to possibly get a breeding pair

Good choice, albeit pretty expensive. I should be getting a pair from Patrick sometime next week.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus