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about the PA law change

Langly2112 Apr 26, 2005 12:00 AM

something has not been answered here.

what happens to native herps that have been in captivity BEFORE this law-if it is passed-

especially in the case of native species that were captive Bred

is it retroactive - will it be kay if one can provide proof of ownership BEFORE the law is passed-like a grandfather clause

stating that if a person has an animal before the law is was passed it allows you to keep it but when it dies you can not replace it.

oh and my take on a few things:

contrary to what they "think" copperheads are not declining
and Honduran Milksnake can't be confused with an Eastern Milk-if they can't tell the difference then they shouldn't be doing that job. (I was reading how their game officer's sometimes can't tell them apart even though they are trained to recognise them-if they can't tell-then they are not trained well enough to do the job)

Box Turtles on the other hand in PA need some protecting-I have gone years of not seeing them at all-got lucky last year to see 2-one of which was rescued and rehabed after being hit by a motor home and returned to it's home range area.

Laws need to make sense and be made by people who actually know the information. Some of these things make sense but a vast majority of it is done by speculation with no hard evidence.

I suppose I should lucky that I do research and education as I read the law. but I don't feel lucky, because how will this affect the next generation of herpers in PA.

and I'm going to get some venomous keepers up in arms but if I can't keep a ratsnake how is that you can keep a cobra. Pardon me for saying so. and how can the local pet shop here blantly break federal law by selling baby turtles-no one in the PFBC cares about those issues.

please send all hate to tokay@ptd.net if you're ticked over what I said about venomous.

Replies (1)

Thamnophile Apr 26, 2005 03:07 PM

>something has not been answered here.

>what happens to native herps that have been in captivity BEFORE >this law-if it is passed-

>especially in the case of native species that were captive Bred

>is it retroactive - will it be kay if one can provide proof of >ownership BEFORE the law is passed-like a grandfather clause

>stating that if a person has an animal before the law is was >passed it allows you to keep it but when it dies you can not >replace it.

Agreed, no mention of grandfathering, exemptions for captive bred, etc.

>oh and my take on a few things:

>contrary to what they "think" copperheads are not declining
>and Honduran Milksnake can't be confused with an Eastern Milk-if >they can't tell the difference then they shouldn't be doing that >job. (I was reading how their game officer's sometimes can't >tell them apart even though they are trained to recognise >them-if they can't tell-then they are not trained well enough to >do the job)

>Box Turtles on the other hand in PA need some protecting-I have >gone years of not seeing them at all-got lucky last year to see >2-one of which was rescued and rehabed after being hit by a >motor home and returned to it's home range area.

My feeling is that if they have, or will do the studies to get, the info to prove a decline in a particular species, then by all means, please protect it! I'm all about conservation. But passing laws with no data to back you up is just ridiculous.

Yes, there's a debate right now, as to whether not mentioning subspecies was just an oversight on their part (which is kind of hard to believe) or whether it was planned, hoping it would go through unnoticed (seems far more likely, unfortunately) so they could suddenly regulate all of these non-native subspecies as well.

>Laws need to make sense and be made by people who actually know >the information. Some of these things make sense but a vast >majority of it is done by speculation with no hard evidence.

EXACTLY.

>I suppose I should lucky that I do research and education as I >read the law. but I don't feel lucky, because how will this >affect the next generation of herpers in PA.

Now that's admirable, because unfortunately, a lot of people figure if it doesn't affect them, then it's nothing to worry about.

>and I'm going to get some venomous keepers up in arms but if I >can't keep a ratsnake how is that you can keep a cobra.

Well, that's part of it too..... and it's a fair question, really....... often these laws are stepping stones for other more restrictive laws. Today it might be restricting or banning keeping native species, tomorrow it might be exotics (including venomous). That's why we need to get off our collective duffs, lol, and make our voices heard! No one is against conservation, or welfare laws, or sensible laws/permits, etc. But if we don't get involved, we may wind up with something unfairly restrictive.

Lisa
Living Earth Environmental Education
@__/ __/ __ / __==< :>--

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