Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Allright...this may be asking a little much in one post, but I really need lots of info quick.

I recently went over to someone's house for a party, and noticed a small tank sitting on the ground near the wall. I of course went over and examined it, and there were two tokays in the tank. I really dont know much about them, but I do know when any animal looks emaciated and starved, and these did. I asked him if I could buy them off of him, and he said I could simply take them.

I got the geckos home, and put them in a terrarium, not knowing really what to do at all. I gave them some water (wrong), I gave them some hides like my snakes, and I gave them an overhead heat source.

The next morning I woke up and read up like crazy on these guys.

Now they are in a 40 gallon breeder, they have coconut fiber as substrate, the humidity is about 80%, and I have a lot of fake vines, sticks, rocks, etc. I misted them twice already today, but have not seen them drink yet. I fed them a bunch of wax worms and crickets...they were extremely hungry. I dusted the crickets with a calcium and D3 supplement.

Basically I am asking...what else should I know here?

I have read lots of care sheets, but they give minimal info, and I have found that you get the true scoop from herpers who have experience with similar animals.

These tokay's do not look very healthy at all...I am surprised they are alive. I am not sure, but I believe that one is a male and the other is a female...but I doubt there will be any breeding in the condition they are in.

I believe that one of them may have a little mouth rot. I will have to check that out a little closer.

I know I should take them to the vet right away, but gotta get paid next week for that. Trust me though...for the time being these little guys are much better off with me.

Should I feed them everyday for a while to get them fattened up.

I really want them to get back to health. I know that I have rambled a lot please, but if someone who knows what they are talking about could please take the time to give me a detailed description on the actions I should be taking, I would really appreciate.

Matt

i'd say the way you got them set up is pretty good. especially compared to their original set up/owner. i would personally try to feed them every day. beef them up as much as possible. put the cage in a low traffic, low stress area. keep dogs, cats, whatever out of the area. spraying is likely the best way to induce drinking,i don't think i've ever seen my tokays drink out of a water bowl. if they aren't too skittish, you may try putting a little neosporin or antiobotic ointment on the mouth. feed crickets as a staple diet, with few wax worms, or mealworms since they are more difficult to digest and are more fatty. you may also try a few pinky mice if they are large enough or if you think they seem healthy enough to take them down. you may want to try to scoop poop out everyday for sanitation reasons. the cleaner the environment, the faster they will recover.
if they are eating well, they are most likely drinking, be sure to spray pretty well to induce the drinking reaction from the geckos.good luck with them

Thank you for your response...

I know that they must be drinking, I am just not seeing them do it. I will feed them today as well. Should I just let them eat as much as they want to? I gave them some crickets yesterday and some wax worms, and they just seemed to stop eating when full. Not really like my burmese pythons!!! Also what do you recommend to dust the crickets with?

Their cage looks like a damn tropical rainforest in their right now. Condensation on the sides and seriously humid (about 80%) I know this is what they need, but with the coconut fiber, moist substrate, wont this grow massive amounts of mold really quickly? How do you keep the mold from forming in the cage?

Matt

for my animals that need large amounts of water/humidity. i separate them into 58 qt. tubs with screen tops and holes drilled in the bottoms. i then shower them in room temp. water for 30-45 minutes every other day. this keeps large amounts of water out of the cage. i then spray 1 or 2 times daily.
at night i place a tall fan in front of the 3 ft. tall cage. it ventilates and drys everything out enough so i can spray in the morning.
i would feed your geckos as much as they will eat, and i would water them frequently. turn the substrate often, and scoop poop and you should have any mold issues. i would watch where wood or vines go into the substrate and watch for mold there. good ventilation, and aeration are keys.
i would use a calcium that includes vit. d3 if you're not using a uv bulb.
let us know how it works out for you.
here's a picture of one of my set ups.

That sounds like a good idea. By turning the substrate...do you mean just mix it up a little, so the dry stuff gets to the top of the mix?

In the setup I have them in right now, I think it would be pretty hard for me to keep great ventilation and aeration in the enclosure due to the fact that i mostly have to cover all of the screen, except for an area for the overhead heatbulb, to keep the humidity up. What are the harmful effects if I did have any mold growth?

Also...this not drinking out of a bowl thing is wierd to me. How much water do these little fellas drink? There are always water droplets condensating on the glass sides of the cage...is this enough for them?

Matt

you can remove the cover on the top to air it out. stagnant humid air is just asking for mold and bacteria. if you let it air out you will be able to spray more and will allow for more air flow. you can try a water dish, some geckos use them, some do not. if you think they may be dehydrated or need more water then you could try the shower method. i've never heard of anyone using it for tokays, but i could see why you may want to try it. mold if eaten can make them sick, and lead to neurological problems and muscle spasms.

I will definitely air out the enclosure at least twice a day. I also read on the internet somewhere that the Tokays do not really like to get their skin wet much, so I may not try the shower methos unless you think it may be necessary. They do look a little dehydrated, but it could simply be because they were starving as well.

They are eating fairly well as of now and do seem to enjoy the climbing accessories i put in their enclosure.

I believe I have a male and a female in the same enclosure. They are in no condition to breed right now, but should I take any precautions down the road, or is the breeding of these animals fairly easy to undertake. I heard they will find a spot in the cage and lay the eggs and then you just wait for them to hatch. Is this true? If it is that easy, then I will not worry about seperating them.

Also, at nighttime I have been simply turning off the heat source and the cage stays about 75 deg. Is this ok to do?

Matt

as long as you see them drinking, or know they are drinking then keep doing what you're doing. females tend to be a grey green color, while males are more of a blue color. males are typically larger in size as well.
the only way breeding would be a threat right now is if they are not in good enough physical condition to produce eggs. which would used up necessary calcium supplies in the female and put her energy towards the eggs. tokays lay adhesive eggs ( usually in groups of 2) and you could leave them in the enclosure, or cut off the piece of the branch that they are on and put that into an incubator that way.

Okay...breeding not really an issue right now.

I notice that they really dive after those crickets...maybe sometimes getting a little substrate in their mouths. Is it harmful if a little bit of that coconut fiber is ingested? I haven't really seen any be ingested, but I am sure it will happen.

Matt

never had an issue with anything bad happening from eating the cocofiber. they seem to digest it fairly well. i wouldn't worry about it much.

How long should I bake branches to sanitize them, and at what temp?

i've nuked some in the microwave. for 2.5 minutes at a time. 4 times. if they won't fit in the microwave, then i fill the bathtub with warm water and dump 1/2-3/4 gal. of bleach in there. let it set and sworl it around every few minutes. let it soak for 30 minutes. drain.stand everything up and blow a fan on there to dry it out. let them dry for a day or two until it no longer smells like bleach and put them in the cages.

Will baking them not work? If it will I would just as soon do it this way.

Matt

it'll work from what i've read, i've just never done it. i believe set the stove at 325-350 and set them in there for half an hour or something like that. that method just seems like it would be dangerous so i haven't tried it yet. definately verify my information before you try it.

Thank you for answering my questions...you have been extremely helpful. I already saw some mold growing under the branches in the cage. I cleaned it up and mixed up the substrate a little.

I just noticed that this thread is getting really long.

Anyway...what humidity do you keep your tokays at?

How many crickets do your tokays eat in a sitting? Mine are eating ok, but tend to eat one or two and let the rest go. They seem to stay in the cage for a while. Is this normal, or are they not eating very well? Just curious. Do you have any pics of inside a tokays mouth. What color is it towards the back of their throat?

Matt

i don't even know the humidity in mine. i just spray it, let the surface dry out, and spray again. tokay's mouths are BLACK towards the back and that is perfectly normal. i never really noticed how many mine eat all at once. i'd just throw 10-12 in there and they'd all be gone the next morning. i'm sure 1-2 is actually quite a bit for each one to eat right now seeing as how they probably haven't been full for quite sometime. if they are eating, and starting to look better then you're doing everything right and i'm sure their appetite will pick up over time.

They are eating just fine...definitely not 6 a piece though. Youre right, they probably just dont have the appetite for it right now. They are starting to look better, and definitely have more energy.

I did let a few drops of water hit the male on the head when I was spraying, and he licked it off...so at least I know they are drinking. I also have a small syringe (no needle), and I approached them with it, and of course they opened their mouths at me, and I just put some water droplets in...they seemed to like it.

I really hope I am doing everything correctly, and get these guys back to great health.

Matt

I've yet to see our tokay drink from his dish yet. What he normally does is wait until he's misted and then lick the droplets off of his face. Other than that, my only advice is to get them to a vet ASAP. Good luck.
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0.1.0 Ball Python - Shaman
1.0.0 Green Iguana - Ike
1.0.0 Tokay Gecko - Fang
2.2.0 Cats - Pumpkin, Furball, Pixie, Stitch
1.0.0 Cockatiel - Ozzy
0.1.0 Budgie - Tweetie
1.0.0 Dwarf Rabbit - Floyd, R.I.P. Rascal
0.0.1 Rat who was too friendly to be eaten - Scabbers

With covering the screen I've found that by leaving a gap at both sides of the tank, air is able to flow through it better. Also raising the cover up allows a lot more air flow. I use cellophane so it's very easy for me to manipulate it to how I want it. It's also safe to use under the heat light as long as the bulb doesn't touch it. At the moment I'm using a humidifier to keep the room humid so I don't need the covering.

Basically what I am doing right now, is covering most of the screen with celophane (sp?) during the day, and then lifting up on side partially during the night. During the day the humidity is staying about 80% with some condensation droplets on the tank so they can drink, and then at night the humidity goes to about 65&-70%. I think this will give it a chance to air out before I spray again in the morning.

I believe that some of their toes have a little retained shed around them causing some curling up problems of some sort. What should I do about this?

Matt

inspect their toes carefully. tokay toes actually bend upward in a weird curling way that is normal, has to do with the sticking action of their feet. if you do find retained shed normally a q-tip with some warm water and light dabbing will help losen it up. extreme case I would put the tokay in a deli dish with a few layers of warm damp paper towels in the bottom and let it sit in a warm area for a while and then use a q-tip to see if you can gently remove the retained shed.
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My posts and replies are my experiences only
1.2.15 Tokays
1.4.10 Leos(13 albino)
1.2.0 AFT's(amel male)
0.2.0 Stenodactylus Petrii(Dune Geckos)

Okay...I would love to try these methods and will. I am very new to handling these finicky geckos. Do you have any tips/techniques that you use to make a handling a little easier. They seriously bite the piss out of me everytime I get my hand near them (the male especially).

I really just dont want to hurt the guys...they seem so fragile compared to all my snakes.

Matt

he he, no real great way to hold them when they don't want which is just about always. hold their neck between your thumb and index finger so they can't twist their neck and bite you. the rest of your hand should be cradling its body, keeping a firm hold but not sqeezing to where you can injure it. you may want to wear a glove, i find it harder with gloves on to control a fiesty tokay. another method i use is to drape a small hand towel over the tokay, covering it's head and then grasp as mentioned above and keep its head covered. sometimes their a little calmer when they can't see, but keep a firm grasp. heres a couple old pics of mine showing how i hold a large tokay

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My posts and replies are my experiences only
1.2.15 Tokays
1.4.10 Leos(13 albino)
1.2.0 AFT's(amel male)
0.2.0 Stenodactylus Petrii(Dune Geckos)

Thanks for the tips. After seeing those pics of your Tokay, it makes me even more sick to my stomach how skinny these little fellas are. They are flesh and bones...literally...no fat on them whatsoever. I have to get a pick and show you.

How long...if you had to guess...with a regular feeding schedule would you say these guys will start putting on some weight? I dont really know how their metabolisms work.

Matt

thats hard to say but tokays are very good eaters and if not infested with parisites should gain weight quickly if their eating and being fed regularly. be sure not to handle these guys any more than you absolutly have to for the next few weeks. keep them out of a high traffic area and let them unstress. i would only lightly mist their tank two, maybe three times a day if you think they need it. they will lick water off tank walls, themselves and so on, force feeding or watering by making them open their mouth at you will only cause stress and lengthen their recovery time. they needs lots of peace and quite while you observe if their eating. really stressed geckos can take weeks to resume eating if there isn't any other problems involved.
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My posts and replies are my experiences only
1.2.15 Tokays
1.4.10 Leos(13 albino)
1.2.0 AFT's(amel male)
0.2.0 Stenodactylus Petrii(Dune Geckos)

Here is a pic of of them...just seeing if it works and I will post a couple more if it does.

Next...

Last one of the terrarium that I have them set up in for the time being. I will be getting some more stuff for them to climb on soon.

youre off to a good start. one thing i would suggest is putting some kind of backing on the back wall and at least one of the sides. this will give the tokays a lot more security, it can be as simple for now as newspaper or cut up cardboard. they'll feel much more confortable hanging on the glass behind something like your hanging plants if the background glass is blacked out. be sure to provide hide areas where the tokays can get comepletly out of site. denser in the back corners or something leaning against the back they can hide behind, plastic or clay pots work well for climbing and hiding behind, flat rock, lots of things you have can be used temporarity when cleaned properly first.
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My posts and replies are my experiences only
1.2.15 Tokays
1.4.10 Leos(13 albino)
1.2.0 AFT's(amel male)
0.2.0 Stenodactylus Petrii(Dune Geckos)

Thanks...I will definitely give them some more hides, and I will go find some contact paper to put on the sides and back of the cage.

What did you think of their condition? Do they look as bad to you as I think they do, or am I just blowing it out of proportion?

Matt

honestly they look pretty thin. have you seen them eat? be sure to use vitamins and calcium regularly cause more than likely the person you got them from didnt. you may want to look into getting a fecal done to check for parasites which are common in WC tokays. they will want to hide and be out of site during the day, as they settle in(lots of peace and quite, no handling)they should start coming out around dusk which is a good time to drop crix in.
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My posts and replies are my experiences only
1.2.15 Tokays
1.4.10 Leos(13 albino)
1.2.0 AFT's(amel male)
0.2.0 Stenodactylus Petrii(Dune Geckos)

Those poor babies look worse than my new arrivals at Petco. For my 2 cents, you might even consider dewinging your crickets. I've been told they can have some difficulty digesting that part and those could use all the help they can get.

In handling, I generally begin handling attempt when their hip bone is nearly filled out. Just for an indication to look for on good fattening. I've had good luck rubbing tummies and behind the head to get them accustomed to being touched and offering a cricket into an open mouth. One less popular method is actually allowing them to bite. A controlled bite (putting your finger in their mouth) is less painfull and in my opinion gives them a feel of having some control. I continue petting and holding and only put them back in their tank when they've let go and have calmed a bit. Just be sure you can easily and quickly regain that grip behind their head to avoid head thrashing which not only hurts a bit but can really harm their mouth. I don't have much trouble with that though.

This entirely depends on the animal itself though. I've had new Tokays that took to handling days after coming in, but then again I've had some that made it clear they had no interest in learning to be handled. You just have to read your particular animal. Tokays are also quite intelligent. I have had them figure out how to slide open a screen lid to escape at one place I worked. They can also recognize their common handler. My girl Storm will let anyone near her as long as she knows I'm near including the cat, who long ago got her tail. No one else can take her out of her house or pet her if she has not smelled me first.

You should have lots of fun with your new babies once they're feeling better. Kudos for all your work and caring!
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An angry Dragon may eat you, but an angry Woman is truly dangerous.

0.0.1 Ball Python - Bobbie
0.1.0 Colombian Red-Tail Boa - Slater
0.1.0 Corn - Chilie Pepper (Amelanistic Okeetee)
0.1.0 Desert Banded King - Unnamed
1.0.0 Nile Monitor - Unnamed
0.0.1 TAME Tokay Gecko - Storm
0.1.0 Golden Gecko - Duo
0.0.1 Striped African Fat-Tail Gecko - Kirsa
0.0.1 Cuban Knight Anole - Lance
0.1.1 Spiny Softshell Turtles - Panycake & Unnamed
1.0.0 Budgett's Frog - Bidgie
0.0.1 3-Eyed Hermit Crab - Unnamed

Yes...I have seen them eat. They are not eating much for the time being, but they are definitely eating. I have been dusting the crickets that I am feeding with calcium/D-3 supplement. I have also been feeding them some wax worms with tongs because I was told they will help in fattening them up.

They are definitely not tame by any means, and I really have no interest in even attempting to tame them until they get in prime health, and have settled in completely.

I put some paper around their cage (3 sides covered) for security and added a couple more vines and sticks and a plant for hiding/climbing.

I have a question about the shedding with these geckos. The male is shedding currently, but it is not coming off quickly. The head and shoulders is off, and everything else seems to be coming loose. Is shedding in lizards usually a one or two night ordeal, or can it take a while?

The female one is really a sweetheart compared to the male...she will actually tolerate a bit of petting if I am inclined to touch her, but I usually do not. The male will snap at me if I even get near him.

What other types of things should I feed to fatten them up. Those superworms look pretty tasty! Do they like those?

Matt

pinkies are good for fattening them up. maybe one every two weeks and be sure to get the smallest ones to start out with. on shedding it is normally a pretty quick thing. if i notice loose skin like in your pics it's usually gone within a hour. this should improve with your better husbandry practices. you may need to help get it off if its been over a day and he's having trouble.
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My posts and replies are my experiences only
1.2.15 Tokays
1.4.10 Leos(13 albino)
1.2.0 AFT's(amel male)
0.2.0 Stenodactylus Petrii(Dune Geckos)

Well it has definitely been a little too long then. The humidity in the enclosure is fine, so it may be just the nutritional issues are at blame here. Anyway...I will give it until tomorrow, and if it is not off, I will help him get the rest off.

Matt