Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I'll have had my little rescued boxy for a week come Thursday... She's got a really good appetite but seems to only like a few things. I think she ate the dandelion greens because she was hungry at the time. She stopped eating them and has gone to just wanting the earthworms, mealworms, bananas, apples and grated carrots. I tried giving her Collared and Turnip greens too but no go on those either. Are there any other greens I should try maybe?

Question 2. Earthworms. She's going through about 20-25 of those a day. Plus about 3 or 4 good size chunks of banana and apple. The carrots she's pulling down about a teaspoon size grating of those as well every day. Is that enough, too little or what? I'm not entirely sure. When held, she takes up my entire hand.. about 4 or 5 inches for size reference. I don't want to over feed her but she's always taking more whenever I offer it. As you can tell, I've never had a land turtle before. My Aquatics that I had had pretty big appetites for fish and worms but never any vegetation. This a whole new experience. I believe she's a 3 toed Box Turtle (she does have 3 toes on her back feet but I've heard thats variable among the species anyway) She's very active... I've changed her substrate to a mix of soil and cypress mulch for humidity and she's burrowing in it now and seems pretty much happy. She doesn't mind handling too much and has no inclination to bite. I've been out digging up about 300 worms for her so I can store them in my fridge. (I have an organic corn field across from my house.. No fertalizers or pesticides.. pull up the corn stalks.. lots of worms easy to get to *L*)I'm supplementing her diet with calcium and some vitamins every other day just to get her back to good health. The shell damage isn't too extensive and I'll be treating that for a while.. though how long should I keep up the betadine and Sulfadine cream for? she doesn't have any soft areas of shell.. just a few pits and a bit of damage on the top surface...

Okay.. I think thats all the questions. I've gotten most of the basic care information from general knowledge and care sheets. These are more specific issues I can't get the answers to that way...Any help is appreciated. And here's a couple pics of her...Just so I can verify the subspecies....

www.drunekelly.com/animals/Turtle/Turtle6.jpg

www.drunekelly.com/animals/Turtle/Turtle7.jpg
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
3.5.3 Leopard geckos (2.0 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 0.1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short), 1.0 Rainwater Albino (Mycah), 0.4 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, Rain and Aris) and 2.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas, and Mystic))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
3 cats (Ashe, Sahara and Hercules)
6 Fish (4 Red Danios, 1 Cardinal Fish, and 1 Tiger Barb)
8 Ramshorn snails
"And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!"

Try chopping everything up finely and mixing it together and then add a worm or two; the bits of greens will stick to other foods (worms included), and with each mouthful the turtle will get a little variety.
Earthworms actually are a decent source of calcium, so don't sweat that too much.
Stephanie

yep...she is about as three-toed boxie as it gets. coloration of the carapace is very distictive of the three-toed.
three-toed boxies may have three or four claws in the rear...but three on this one definitely means three-toed.

amount of earthworms would vary with whatever size the ones are you are finding. are these the big "nightcrawlers"? she is a nice size mature three-toed, with very good shell growth from what I can see. and a very good appetite as well. but by volume, optimally, the diet should be close to 50/40/10% or 60/30/10% of protein/vegetables with leafy greens/fruit. if these are pretty good size adult worms you're getting, that figure would probably be on the high side later down the road. however if she's underweight and has just recently come from hibernation, I wouldn't worry about overfeeding too much. maybe cut back to 12-15 large worms and encourage more variety.

you can also try boiled mustard greens or the carrot tops. romaine lettuce as well, but less frequently than others. watch that you don't get her spoiled on the bananas. boxies will do that and make it the only other thing they take besides earthworms. the links to the dietary pages I posted previously have a very good listing of food items and calcium content at the bottom.

a better picture of the carapace showing the damage would help, but based on what I can see, it looks quite healthy and nothing more than superficial. it will take a long time to heal regardless, but calcium and UVB are the best things for it. if it's quite superficial and she's outdoors, maybe just a quick saline/betadine rinse for debris everyday if you have the time. really need to see a good picture of the area in question to be for sure though.

Mick

www.drunekelly.com/animals/Turtle/Turtle8.jpg

That one was as of 2 days ago.. (substrate was changed after that to soil/cypress mix) She's not outside all the time right now. I'm still working on clearing up the mild URI she has... But she is outside for a few hours a day to give her some real sunlight. I'm not fond UV bulbs and have to generally be careful of them since I have an allergy to UV Lights and sunlight. I'm not too sure of her entire history as I just got her a week ago from the Humane Society here in VT since they don't deal with reptiles. I take in their smaller reptiles that they get in....She was dropped off in their dumpster in a cardboard box...She seems a little light for her size to me but I'm not entirely positive. But there's no way for me to know if she was hibernated or not...

The earthworms are about 4 inches long or so... most between 4 and 7 inches so they'd probably qualify as nightcrawlers. She seems to love em...along with the mealworms, the carrot and the banana. I'm trying not to spoil her at all on any food which is why I keep trying the different greens I can get ahold of..I need to get to the store and grab some strawberries and blueberries for her... as well as try the carrot top greens... What about beet greens? Can she have those? I just thought of that...I didn't see them on the lists on those pages but I might have missed them in my reading.

Anyway, thanks for the help. I appreciate it.. I just want to be sure I'm doing the best thing for her at this point.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
3.5.3 Leopard geckos (2.0 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 0.1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short), 1.0 Rainwater Albino (Mycah), 0.4 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, Rain and Aris) and 2.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas, and Mystic))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
3 cats (Ashe, Sahara and Hercules)
6 Fish (4 Red Danios, 1 Cardinal Fish, and 1 Tiger Barb)
8 Ramshorn snails
"And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!"

ok this looks like a little knawing maybe from a canine. not serious at all from what I can see. the camera flash made one area a little hard to see...as long as there's no puncture more than a couple mm deep.

occasional betadine/saline rinse and sulfadine since she's indoors. maybe every three days, or whenever the cream dissipates, since you don't know much about the background
and until you have a little more time with her. I'd do this for about 2 weeks depending on the looks of progress and cleanliness of the wound. making sure there's no sign of infection, rotting etc., then step back the frequency to about once a week for another 2 weeks to a month. re-evaluate after that, but this should be enough time to allow a very minor wound to heal sufficiently from there without risk of infection or constant maintenance.

dilute the betadine about 50-50 to start, and you can use gradually more diluted as you go, as it heals a little. you might follow up after this month or so of treatment with vitashell to then help promote a little faster regrowth. or you could just discontinue the sulfa after a couple weeks, based on your best judgement of the situation, and sustitute the vitashell after the betadine rinses for the rest of the time. it's really a pretty subjective judgement call without seeing the actual progress everyday, and it doesn't look like a serious enough wound to worry too much over which specific way you do it. this is probably something that would be fine on it's own as well, but just take much longer to heal.

yes beet greens are good...Ca of 2.83:1. anything above 2:1 is ok for regualar feeding.

I understand this misgivings about the UV lights. mercury vapos were not meant for indoors in close proximity to persons due to the intense UV radiation they emmit at close range, and flourescents often have misleading labelling about their actual UVB output as compared to the total energy output, and can be underpowered unless very close. I have always been a supporter of natural unfiltered sunlight, but it also can be a killer in a matter of hours without plenty of shade and water to
thermoregulate in, or deep enough and loose substrate. box turtles don't really bask that much in the wild. 2 hours or so is plenty every day. according to the figures I worked up once, it would take 5-7 hours for most flourescent lamps, and 30 min. to 2 hours for most mercury vapors to equal 5-10 minutes direct sunlight on a clear day here in Texas.

( P.S.-for the beginners...that doesn't mean it's a good idea to take your turtle out for sunlight in the aquarium instead of shelling out for a UV light. you'll cook it to death in there. get a dedicated outdoor enclosue instead, or...sit with your turtle outside for a while, then bring it in. )

Mick

Thank you very much. There are about 4 small holes in her shell, no more than about the size of a small nail head around and not even deep enough for the cream to set into a lot... I'll keep up with what I'm doing as recommended and see how she looks in 2 weeks. I take her outside for a bit of wandering time and sit and keep an eye on her so she can get exposure to sunlight and then I don't have to bother with the UV lights. As you can see from my list I deal with species that are either Nocturnal or don't require UV lights...due to my allergy. Its easier for me to sit in the shade and watch her than anything. That and after the initial 2 weeks, I think I'm going to build her something outside to roam in with a proper setup to provide shade and water. Might not be huge but it'll be bigger than I can provide inside. When I do get her healthy, I have a friend who's going to take her... but thats only after she's healthy. I'm the rescuer... I adopt them out to people I've known for a long time that have kept alot of species of herps. If I had the room I'd take in the iguanas and Monitors as well... but I don't. Small species only.

Again, I appreciate the help. Always trying to expand my knowledge base so I can deal with whatever's tossed my way. I'm thankful for boards like this where I can get help when I need it from people who know what they're talking about.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
3.5.3 Leopard geckos (2.0 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 0.1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short), 1.0 Rainwater Albino (Mycah), 0.4 Poss. Het. Albino (Annika, Lace, Rain and Aris) and 2.1 dbl. het blizzard x tang albino (Malice, Malfeas, and Mystic))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
3 cats (Ashe, Sahara and Hercules)
6 Fish (4 Red Danios, 1 Cardinal Fish, and 1 Tiger Barb)
8 Ramshorn snails
"And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!"

just an after thought since reading your last message, and it's mostly academic, but, in relation to the allergy you have;
there is usually a higher exposure to UV outside, even in the shade on a sunny day, than with a florescent UVB light at 6ft. away. that's one reason I don't force my reptiles out of their hides to get in the sun. I know they're still getting surface reflection.
since you normally deal with reptiles with little UVB requirements, I didn't know if you were aware that these florescent lamps really don't pose any more risk standing a few feet from one for five minutes than walking out to your car for say 30 seconds.
the turtle will definitely benefit more from the sun, but I'm just throwing that out there in case it gets to be an allergy problem for you sitting outdoors, and you might be looking for another option. something to think about would be a UV light on a timer or switch on the wall a distance away. even a mercury vapor lamp on a timer wouldn't be an exposure problem if you weren't in the same room with it.
anyways, just a thought in case the outside thing for 2 hours a day gets to be a problem.

Mick

Hey There

I'm glad to hear what you're doing. That turtle found itself to right keeper.
All your questions might be answered about feed, but I'll try to add a little more and see if it helps you out some more. As for veggies and fruits, I would suggest you look at this site. I think it's VERY informative....
http://boxturtlesite.org/diet.html

As for the worms, earthworms are great, but not so many. It probably isn't taking veggies since it gets so much protein. To make it easy on yourself, you could buy night crawlers from a sporting goods store or bait shop. I usually feed my turtles two every other day, inbetween the days I give them fruits and veggies.

You mentioned the turtle feels lit to you. That could be a sign of internal parasites. Best of luck to you.