Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A big "Thank You !" goes to Fred Buckman for being the spokesperson today for all the Penna herpers who face the possibility of giving up the the keeping, breeding and observing herps as we have always known it to be in Penna.

Fred made an excellent showing after the 'canned', memorized 30 second statement from one of the states biologists claiming simply their new laws were based on vaild research and that he agreed with them. Yawn ...

Fred took over from there, unhesitantly pointing out the endless holes in their 'research' and bringing up facts that obviously none of these people never even considered when drawing up the proposal. Even the non-herpers in attendance who weren't going to be effected by these new reptile-keeping regulations were impressed with Fred's professional presentation and realized they were NOW listening to someone who obviously knew his S*** and was presenting the REAL DEAL. Even those there who didn't know a Garter snake from a Mountain king listened intently to what he was saying.

The only thing about the morning that disappointed me was there were only 11 herpers who didn't find it too much trouble to take the day off from work and leave their homes at 3 am - some even earlier without sleep - to show up for something that will negatively effect a big part of their lives ... I really thought there would be more of us putting up resistance to this.

So if Penna turns out like N.J. - don't complain about it.

Everyone needs to remember that there is still time to write - POLITELY - to the commissioners and let thier opinions be known. This is still a rough draft, and it has to go through a process before it can be finalized. That process includes public comments.

Katrina

Three cheers for Fred and glad to hear it looks like there will be a positive outcome!

Jim - What an attitude. Sorry if you think 11 people was a poor turnout, not everyone has the luxury of taking off work whenever they feel like it. I am sure many more wrote, called and emailed. I actually think 11 is a great showing and BIG THANKS to those that were able to do so.

>>>> The only thing about the morning that disappointed me was there were only 11 herpers who didn't find it too much trouble to take the day off from work and leave their homes at 3 am - some even earlier without sleep - to show up for something that will negatively effect a big part of their lives ... I really thought there would be more of us putting up resistance to this.

So if Penna turns out like N.J. - don't complain about it.

Look at the Penna herpers who will turn out and enjoy this Saturday's Hamburg Show , and 11 is a poor turn out for what they have at stake, no matter how you look at it.

>>Look at the Penna herpers who will turn out and enjoy this Saturday's Hamburg Show , and 11 is a poor turn out for what they have at stake, no matter how you look at it.
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This isn't in defense of what Jim stated. He's the last person that needs defended. This is purely my .02, and then some. Someone else mentioned on another forum that "8am on a weekday wasn't very convenient for anyone who has to pay bills." Well guess what? It's not going to be convenient to anyone if these proposals turn into LAW. CONVENIENCE? We all have bills to pay, and NO-ONE that showed up was taking off work being a professional snake breeder/dealer. Almost everyone has other "REAL" jobs. I think the only thing that Jim meant was, it would have been even better if more people would have showed. One sick-day, one vacation day...it's not too much to ask. Everyone's aware that there are people who realisticly just could not make it. That's understood and it's cool. The phone calls and emails were tremendous, and what was needed as well. Everyone greatly appreciates those emails and calls that were made. They were VERY-EXTREMELY-CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO DESCRIBE-important. But keep in mind it's far from being over yet. And, there are definitely those out there that are going to leave it up to someone else, do nothing, and then 8itch and moan later. I believe THAT's what Jim was getting at.

Joe Yakelis

To say that everyone who stands to loose from this new proposal should have been in Harrisburg is not going to have changed their answer--they want to change the law and THEY will change it in some form or another. Everyone who made any calls or sent any emails reserves the right to complain the outcome. Their efforts did NOT go unheard by the PAFBC and not everyone could go out nor did they have to. We are all in this together and we are already showing signs of division. When will we unite and stand together? People who do not even own reptiles made calls and sent emails and I know this for a fact. EVERY single voice of opposition was worth it. Stop the bickering about those who did not sacrafice or take a day off. Do you really think that they made thier decision based soley on the people who were present? I am certain that there were 10 times the amout of emails that gave valid argument to the holes in the new proposal. Just my .02 cents. I still say WE ALL NEED TO STAND TOGETHER AS ONE AND REALIZE THAT THERE ARE MORE WAYS OF BEING HEARD.

You're re-iterating most of what I've already said. And please try not to be defensive. It's not bickering, it's argumentation. And argumentation is ok. It leads to progress. And it's what we're doing with the PFBC right now. Read my post more carefully. I pointed out how important the emails and calls were. The point that I'm trying to emphasize is that the more we do as a collective effort, the farther we may be able to go, and the larger say we may have in this. If you interpret my post as anything but trying to get ALL of us together in one collective effort, you're missing my point. Even if it gets you fired up - GOOD. There is no "good enough" with this. There is no "not all of us had to go." Well, hey, Fred didn't have to go either - Right? AGAIN, the calls and emails were MUCH needed, but it would have been nice to have people standing in standing room only - and that's a fact. The impression THAT would have made would have been worth another 100 emails and another 100 phone calls.

With all the calls, emails, and 11 people we threw them off tilt. If we would have had 50 people there it would have made an even bigger impression on JUST HOW UNITED WE STAND. I never said that if you called or wrote you couldn't 8itch. But if you called, wrote and went, then you did everything in your power. This is NOT a sign of division. This is a sign that we need to work on our unity "demonstration" just a little more. They have the egde from the getgo, so why not do everything you can?

"To say that everyone who stands to loose from this new proposal should have been in Harrisburg is not going to have changed their answer--they want to change the law and THEY will change it in some form or another" You sound pessimistic, or will you say "realistic"? Or am I too optimistic? And to what extent will they change them? The measure of how far we're willing to go (drive, appear, educate them in person - things that aren't convenient) to show our presence and concern will help determine that. And I'm merely talking of writing, calling, human bodies standing in a room - physical presence. That's the entire point of calling, emailing, attending. Show your disapproval right? It already has - by the mass emails and phone calls that were made. 10x as many emails? I think it may have been higher. And that's what we want. But how much better could it have been to show your disaproval in person? What if half of those people, or even 1/4 actually showed up? Want to show them you really care, look them in the face and politely tell them, educate them face to face (politely) - they don't know. It gives a slightly different outcome. The emails and calls had a huge effect (which they admitted to at the meeting) and without a doubt AGAIN, everyone who contributed is greatly thanked. Every single person did their part. It made all the difference. But so did our presence of 11 people. "We never had this many people attend a meeting." And if we would have had a larger presence, it would have made an even BIGGER impression.

Joe Yakelis

you guys both have a good point. would it be a cop-out response if i jumped in and said . . .

Thanks to the 11 people who came out and everyone else who wrote emails and letters. This is far from over so if there's any way you can make it, please consider making time in your schedule to be at the next PFB meeting. 11 is great but if Hamburg's any indication of our numbers I know we can do better at the next one. And if you can't make it, keep those emails and phone calls coming!

well, that's my contribution to diplomacy for the day. off to bed.
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Jesse Rothacker
Forgotten Friend Reptile Sanctuary
Find out how YOU can get involved in reptile rescue...
www.forgottenfriend.org

I am not trying to cause trouble but I'd like to point out that comparing the attendance at the F&B meeting to the numbers that will attend Hamburg is not a good comparison. The date of the Hamburg show has been set and advertised for maybe a year(?)allowing plenty of people to schedule for it, the first I heard of the F&B issue was April 16, too short notice for most to alter their schedules.

Also, I bet only a tiny fraction of Pa herpers read the CITES forum of KS with any regularity, I just happened to notice it on the home page as I was heading for the classifieds.And I am glad I did.

I do think the Hamburg show will be a great opportunity to let everyone know what is going on and I personally plan to print out the information and have a notice on my table and hope others will do the same.