Reptile & Amphibian Forums

They may seem appropriate to many keepers, and maybe they have some use? But not in my book. Herpetoculture has reached higher grounds this last decade, we now understand that most of our failure in this hubby is caused by dehydration, yes that’s right! Dehydration is right up there in the NO;1 position on the kill a reptile list. Once a reptile start dehydrating, everything else follows. In the old days we use to keep them in open top cages and wondered why on earth are they dieing on us again?
The good news is that some of us thru trials and errors (experience) have learned that reptiles are totally depended on water, even species like uromastyx must be kept hydrated, better cages are less ventilated and need less wattages, the idea is to balance thermal gradients and hydration. Obviously high wattage bulbs are over with, a well designed cage will be well served with 75w floods, large monitors can use several for basking, This really helps in maintaining moisture and heat without turning your cage into a dehydration chamber.

Shown is a 75w ceramic sold for reptiles, this thing needs a good ceramic socket as it gets really hot, anything that contact with it will burn (especially monitors) the downfall of any such heat device is that it sucks all moisture out of your cage. As mentioned a little lower, there are good heat pads, flex watt, heat cable now available in low wattages, quit suitable and safe. Good herping.

Just sharing my experience to help (free!), if this post doesn’t make sense, pleas ignore it.

i caught that, didnt think i would did you? or did you?

Hey. With all of that info in mind, I was wondering what sort of device would assume the role of the ever important "basking spot" in the event that I were to use an undertank device instead of a heat lamp type device. I'm a relative novice with a rudimentary knowledge of hard monitor physiology, so bear with me, please, and I admit that I may be splitting hairs here. Does a varanid have a natural predetermination to bask in a light source? Is it just as well to have a simple warm surface in any form as opposed to a warm surface generated from a light source from above (ie simulating the sun)? Would it be more ideal to have a very low wattage basking bulb in conjunction with a UTH? I like the UTH better because it doesn't need to be shut off at night and I don't need to worry as much on chilly evenings. Would it be better if I were to just use a flourescent tube with the UTH? Does the UTH do much for the ambient temp? If I do a good enough job with the substrate and encourage the monitor to burrow, is it better to have a hot spot under the cage? I liked your post and want to do as much as possible for the ackie I am to obtain this Saturday.

Something to consider... Ackies burrow into the substrate to cool; how would an UTH be benificial. My opinion may differ from the above, but I believe a very hot basking site is best for ackies, with the appropriate temp. gradient for that species made available. (The large the cage the better.) Humidity can be made available in humid, burrow retreats, by plants that will tolerate a drier environment (they should still be watered, which helps with humidity as well, without ruining the desired desert atmosphere), and keeping a water dish available is also a good idea.

Some reptiles are more designed for desert dwellings, and as long as we simulate every aspect of a desert, as best as we can, then our reptiles will fair best.

I believe the above post works best for tropical and semi-temperate species, and possibly grassland species. I'm sure with some ingenuity, any method can be used to obtain the proper requirements.

While your post has some good pointers, I don't think it matters how the appropriate perimeters are met as long as they are. Of course if humidity is ignored then you will have problems. Your discussion also supports at least yearly vet checks, with general blood work done to monitor trends in values. I doubt anyone does this, and yes, I realize it is not practical for larger collections. I know I don't do it, which is a little hypocritical of myself. The temp gun pointed at the surface of a ceramic heater is retarded though as surface temp is much different than air temp. Having such a device where a reptile can get at it is equally retarded. The heater pictured did not have any sort of caging around it, yet I'm sure this is more for dramatic effect then to demonstrate proper usage.

All in all though, your opinion is appreciated.

if you have a heat source it throws heat warms the area around it. Now you put something close to it what do yuo think happens to that object?

It gets heated and now can still be touched by your monitor. If you used wire to cover it your monitor now has something to hang onto.

So unless your covering it with some object that doesn't heat up your only fooling yourself.

Certain materials retain and conduct heat in different ways. A wire mesh will disperse the heat quicker than the ceramic itself. I can comfortably place my hand on the screen and wood box around my ceramic heater.

I can touch alot of hot things, but keeping your hand there for a prolonged time is what hurts.

The heat source gives off more heat the closer you are to it. Jobi showed that below by taking the tmep. of the ceramic itself. Now you place wire around it. This gives your monitor something to hold onto. Now he sits hanging from the wire close to the heat soure at around 400 degrees.

Remove the wire and he has nothing to get a hold of. To me that makes more sense.

But hydration is the first concern with all wild monitors too. Without the ability to keep sufficient water levels, monitors do not go about the rest of their lifes. Food, reproduction, etc. are all secondary to this.(but can be related)

And your right, if this does not make sense, please ignore it. FR

You are correct on the high temps and moisture robbing qualities of ceramic heat emitters. But I don't believe that heat tapes, strips, or pads are a suitable replacement. Heat emitters that are properly installed and placed at safe distances are no threat to lizards. The major advantage of heat emitters is that they raise the ambient air tempature in comaprison to heat tapes and pads that do very little to heat anywhere else in the habitat except where thay are mounted. Also for the heat tapes to be effective you have to assume the lizard will lay on or against it. In my observation lizards have quite varied habits. I could have never maintained large lizards through the colder months without heat emitters or space heaters. This is not to say that heat strips and pads don't have thier use, I also use these in my habitats. Its just not sufficent for maintaining tempatures for a 5ft lizard in a 20sq ft enclosure. I see alot of inforamtion in this forum that is very biased and not researched. I hope that persons new to maintaining reptiles in captivity seek many sources of inforamtion and apply that knowledge with caution.

In reponse to joeysgreen, gradient and ambient temps were exactly the reason that I asked about the UTH's. Thanks for clearing that up. In the case that someone were to use one of the much derided (by almost everyone here, anyway) screen tops, obviously they would want to cover it with something. What's good for this? Could I just place a sheet of glass over the area of the cage not covered by the heat source? What about aluminum foil? I'm essentially just trying to think of non-flammable options. Thanks. I think I am just going to go with a low-wattage flood for a heat source.

You can use anything plywood, FRP, plexiglass, etc... I don't see why aluminum foil wouldn't work.

CHE's will raise the ambients, but will still not provide high enough temps for basking unless they are very close. I found 50watt and lower floods to work much better on small aquarium type enclosures. So I think you are on the right track.

--Robert

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The very best item to cover screen type tops are old Reptile magazines, some say, thats all there good for. hahahahahahahahaFR

I don't think I quite understand what your questions are, but an aquarium is probably not the best enclosure for varanids. With that said, ackies could probably still do well in them, it's all a matter of paying attention to detail. Ventilation is important in any enclosure, and ideally every animal would be kept outdoors and/or surrounded by a screen or mesh. But lets be practical, we're not talking chameleons here, nor does everyone live south of the winter's frost. Obviously some compromise on ventilation is needed to keep the proper husbandry perameters met. If in an aquarium a screen top is "okay" and if some of it needs to be covered, then wood will do fine. A note on the screen cage lid though; don't use those cheap ones that you can buy. I built a 2x4 frame and used a thicker grade of screen for an aquarium lid that I used for a temp. enclosure. If the screen is too fine, then toes will get caught, and the monitor will most likely also force a hole in it.

I hope this anwers your questions

Are they kept in a freezer? Most people keep them in their house.
The typical inside temps of your house along with a heat source will keep a good gradient. Heating the entire cage is not a good idea.

I myself have found heat matts and bulbs to be a good choice. They will heat an area but also leave a gradient. If I used a space heater it was done in the room outside of the cage to keep the room itself warm. If I would of used it in the cage it would of kept a constant temp. removing the monitors choices of temps.. I prefer to leave them the choice of temps. (gradient) so they can choose what works for them.

Again these methods are what I have experienced. You may experience something different it doesnt make things wrong or right. Good luck and happy experimenting.

No one is argueing the fact that a gradient is the way to go. In my experience, my house is much too cool for even the cool end of the thermal gradient for a tropical lizard. I do use a room heater for my herp room, and then heat the left side of all my cages

To me those are all very much the same. The monitors in those areas look for and seek out the samething. It's just how they find it that is different.

My cage setups might be furnished differently for each species. But the choices they make and the tools they use offer them all the samething.

Most people keep there homes around 70 degrees that is why I posted about the gradient. 70 degrees is not all that cold it will give a big range of temps within the cage. During winter my cages drop into the 60's on the cool end.

They are secondary heat source, not primary. Also I see you don’t understand the concept, its about energy waste and saving. Then you go on about biased information, yet your talking about 5 feet monitor in 20sq ft enclosure? This to me is a little small.
I do have such cages and they have a single 75w flood as sole heat source, theirs no need for more. Why would yours need more?

I don't understand jobi... I'm not questioning you or your expertise, just dont understand. I can't imagine a 75W bulb providing a large enough basking area at say 95F or so (I know, species specific), and then filter down to keep the cool end in the low 80's over a 5 foot long gradient. Is your ambient tempurature for the cage all the same, and then you have a tiny focal heat spot? I don't have a problem spending on power bills, but would like to understand your methods as well

Another thought before I press the post button, but do you have to really cut of the ventilation for this to work?

The basking should be within the species rang, from 90f to 140f these temps are easily archived with a regular incandescent 75w flood in a 6by4 feet cage = 24sq ft floor, this would be suitable for young monitors of medium size species, in larger cages 2 or 3 of the same floods can be use to cover the desired area. Creating a good basking spot is as simple as raising a shelf, log, stone till the right temperature is reached or lowering the light, whatever suit your needs.

Your cage environment will determine the gradient, mine are in a room heated at 80f, therefore 80f is the minimum, I will change this in time to 75f.

Needless to say Hydro bill are not the reason we restrict ventilation with monitor cages, it’s simply to keep temps and humidity in the cage, however you will notice that such cages are very energy efficient, a higher wattage bulb will rapidly over heat a good cage.

Now you may say good ventilation prevents over heating, true! But as heat raises it vacuums all the air and humidity out the window. Also any device that radiate heat downwards is a waste of energy, the higher the wattage the more waste of energy, only little % hits the basking area, the rest is sucked up as heat raises, the hotter the faster.

Often I see on these forums cages on cement floor in the basement or garage, often these floors are very cold by varanids standards. To compensate keepers use multiple heat device rather then insulating the floor? Add to this large areas of ventilation and you have a less then adequate cage. Iv seen monitors kept in such crappy cages for decades, goes to show how tough they are.

I raise baby monitors in 45g drums using only one 25w regular bulb, the holes you see are the only vent they have, monitors grow well in such condition, then I use the drums in other ways. Frank says I am terrible using these drums he he, I love them because they keep the good stuff in and give the monitors security. By the way my adult crocs are kept with a single 90w flood per cage.

This is why I read these forums almost nightly. People who are always thinking. Thanks for the tip