Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We have updated some pics of our beardies. If you go look at them can someone tell me if Isaac's beard looks excessively large? I think it does and I am wondering if it is anything to be concerned about. Just seems like it is much larger than my other two and they are about 3x larger than Isaac. Isaac has had a pretty rough life and we nursed him back to health after he suffered alot of mistreatment from previous owner so I was wanting to find out if his beard looks normal or not. Thank you.
Link

he's extremely well fed! I think you mean that hangin-down extra chin thing? His beard itself looks just fine. That chin or neck area is a common place for the extra weight to settle in a full-figured beardie. I have one of those boys, too. We blamed it on him being a German Giant when he was young, now he's just huge & happy
Isaac looks beautiful!
Take care,
Sharla

Thank you. All three of mine are well fed as you can tell by the pictures. My husband wanted me to buy a hamster wheel and make them exercise. LOL..

The only thing I recall reading that affected the beard,
Was vitamin A toxicity and edema in the beard.
It starts out with swelling in the throat and continues to the body.
I've never actually seen it, so I can't judge by pics.
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TheClassyLizard

If it is Vit. A toxicity, I read a way back when that you can offer shredded cabbage to counteract the Vit. A. I know my Female had started to get a fat throat like that when I was giving the Spring mix and wasn't taking out any of the spinach leaves. I gave her the shredded cabbage and started taking out the spinach and it went away. Now, did the cabbage take care of it or did it just go away because I started taking out most of the spinach? I will never know.

Good luck
Joel R

Maybe I will try the cabbage thing. Isaac eats so many greens but typically they are dandelion greens or mustard greens with other veges that I throw in and he always cleans out his bowl. I'll have to start throwing in some cabbage and see what happens. It can't hurt. I guess I didn't think that greens could cause the Vitamin A toxicity. Thanks for the input though.

It's not the greens you are feeding that can do it. It's greens like spinach, with high vitamin A.
If you don't see a change soon, stop giving the cabbage.
Cabbage is hih in goitrogens.

**From www.beautifuldragons.com
Goitrogens are foods which suppress thyroid function. Goitrogens can induce hypothyroidism and depress thyroidal function. Goitrogens work by interfering with the thyroidal uptake of iodine. Iodine restriction will cause the thyroid to increase in size in an effort to filter more blood to get more iodine. Please see the notes column to find out what foods contain goitrogens.

There is a great list of veggies and which are good/bad at this site. See *Nutrition content*

www.beautifuldragons.com

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TheClassyLizard

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Thank you for the information and the web link. I just don't understand what could be causing the problem. The only items I feed them are crickets, mealworms, waxworms, superworms and a monthly pinky mouse. The salads I make for them have mustard greens, kale, dandelion greens, and carrots. These are the only things they get on a very regular basis. Is there anything there that could be causing the problem? We are getting ready to move and so I have a week of vacation coming up starting next week--maybe I should just make a vet appt and have them check him out. I have the best vet on the planet, he is the one that helped me get Isaac healed up after his previous owners. The little guy weighed .08 ounces as an adult. He has had a tough little life but I still worry about him. He is still really active and eats well. Thanks for all the help.

I agree with Christy - could be a vitamin A toxicity. Are you supplementing with vitamins that contain any amount of vitamin A?

Mustard greens contain 53 IU/g of vit. A and dandelion greens contain 140 IU/g!!! That's more than twice the amount that spinach has. Spinach only has 67 IU/g. But it's the high oxalate content in the spinach that makes it so counteractive with beardies. Oxalates bind calcium and make it usless in their body.

I would suggest keeping the mustard greens on the menu and replacing the dandelion greens with collard greens. You can still give dandelion greens occasionally, if he really likes them. This should really lower the vitamin A content in his diet. Also, collard greens have a very high calcium content (14.5:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio).

I've never seen what a vitamin A toxicity looks like, but all of your beardies look healthy to me. Other signs of vit. A toxicity are bloating of the body and lethargy. Don't mistake laziness for lethargy. A reptile who has recently eaten, or is entering the pre-shed stage, or got up on the wrong side of the cage, will still be alert to his surroundings, responsive to stimuli such as loud noises, touch, and pain. A lethargic reptile will not.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Veronica
Beautiful Dragons

Vegetables and greens do not actually contain pre-formed or active vitamin A (retinol). This in the only form of the vitamin that is capable of causing toxicity. Active or pre-formed vitamin A is found only in animal based products, plant matter contains merely the harmless precursor carotene. The body converts carotene to active vitamin A only as needed. The vitamin A levels listed for vegetables are derived from a conversion formula which calculates the amount of active vitamin A that can be converted from the available carotenes.

T.B

he looks well fed to me heres another fat head, Carrick prides himself on it ok well hes just "pleasantly plump" all over, hes been on a diet for 3 weeks and lost a whopping 2 grams!! simply amazing