Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am expecting eggs from my freckled monitors, and I have an incubator set up......BUT I am having some problems getting a steady temp.

The temp. goes from about 80-85 during day/night.

Here are my thoughts.

In the wild, when it come to natural incubation, I would think that the temp. would differ from day to night, warm days/ rainy cold days and that a slight difference in temperature is a part of natural incubation.

Here are my doubts:
Does anyone have any experience with this in captivity. Does it matter that the temp. in the incubator is not consistant at all times?
Do I have do build a new incubator?

please, all help/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

regards
Rasmus

First, I cannot say if it will be a problem or not. Its untested. But you trying to pull something out of nature in order to not have to build another incubator is wrong.

And most likely your thoughts about how eggs in nature are wrong too. Or not. Monitors tend to nest deep into something(perferred nesting type) not shallow like many other reptiles. The reason they do is unknown to be, but lets say there must be a reason.

Eggs in nature are not incubated anything like we do it in captivity so there is little reason to compare. For instance, in nature eggs can go underwater and hatch, not in captivity.(Seen it) or at least its not recomended. The reason is, in nature, they areas that are not stagnated. That is, there is a supply of oxygen that keeps the eggs healthy. This is far from the case in captivity, all our designs are stagnant, boxes in boxes. In nature, these type reptiles do not put their eggs in wet or moist areas, they put them in dry humid areas. We do not, we put them in wet areas.

So in nature the eggs can and do change temps, just very slowly, remember, theres a larger amount of insulation, a foot or more of good stuff. Also, nature has a much larger amount of substrate, miles and miles, to hold the proper amount of humidity. We only offer tiny shoe or sweater boxes. In fact, some only offer deli cups. So natures design can and does tolerate a much larger amount of variation. Ours in captivity screws up in a flash.

But with all that said, we have no problem hatching eggs, even as poorly as we do it.

Now for the real problem, why does your incubator flucuate. They do make really good temperature controllers. Or is your heat source to small, get a bigger one. Or you can gamble and see if it works. It may. After all, its empty now and there is no mass to hold the temperature consistant.

Once I tried those thermostats with a nighttime drop. You know to mimic nature. the problem was, the incubator went from 85F in the day to 75F at night, the eggs in the sweater box, stayed at a nice 80F 24/7. So I threw the dang thing out. Remember, thats what the mass of substrate is suppose to do, keep things constant. It worked.

So all and all, your merely trying to rationalize not building or fixing your incubator. fix it. I do find it odd that there is known ways to do things(hatch V.tristis eggs) but you as a newbie(to hatching eggs) do not make sure your doing whats already been done. But instead want to start with something that may or may not work. That is common place here and of wonder. FR

Hi Frank.

First of all, thanks for some of your reply. I appreciate your thoughts on natural incubation, and do agree with most. exept the part with the temps. beeing consistant at all times in nature, but I shall get back to that.

I also appreciate your references to your own experiences.

What I do not appreciate when you judge me on mere to nothing.
I think, you think I posted here, because I couldn´t be bothered to build a new incubator, (please correct me if I am wrong, and don´t take this the wrong way).
I will happily build a new one, and have already set up another one to monitor if it is working better.

My question were purely on the informative level. I was seeking thoughts/ advise on personal experience with drops/rises in temp. in captivity and in nature.
And that I got.

now to the part where I question what you stated.

I quote:
Monitors tend to nest deep into something(perferred nesting type) not shallow like many other reptiles. The reason they do is unknown to be, but lets say there must be a reason.

I agree that most grounddwelling monitors nest deep, but what about semi/ arboreal species who nest in trees?
The temp. is not consistant inside a decaying log.
I know the decaying wood also produces heat, but not enough to make up for the surrounding temps. There is a difference whether it is a cloudy windy day, or a sunny no wind day, or if it is day or night.

What I state here is just my thoughts, maybe it´s true maybe it´s not.

I do appreciate your post, and was hoping for a reply from you, as I do not doubt you have years of successfull experiences.

I tryed to hatch t. orientalis last year aswell, but unfortunaly I lost the eggs, I think because of to wet substrate.

So this time I will try to hatch half of the eggs in dry perlite and the other half in 2:1 perlite:water mix.

I also only learn from my mistakes, and of course it suck when something goes wrong, but then I will just try and change things until I succeed.

But all in all, thanks for your reply, and respect for your many successes with monitors.

regards
Rasmus

such as the time of year monitors in the wild choose to lay eggs, the temps in that area in that time of year. The ability to choose from hundreds of places. You know like where the wind is blowing from, the sun is facing, etc. etc.

It is not as simple as setups we use.

So I would bet safely the temps they choose in the wild whether it be in the ground or in a tree stay fairly constant within a degree or two.

But What you should be concerned with is how they are incubated here in captivity, thats what your goal is. Worry about the wild way when you are running around outside looking for the nearest tree to hatch them in.
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"Don't just use something because you read it worked, use that something because it does work. If you are to listen to anyone listen to your monitor."

I am mostly worried about incubation in captivity, but I do have an interest to know as much as possible. That is why I asked.

My "former" incubator ranged between 80-85 or so, which is not much in the wild.
But of course there are many thing to take into consideration, but it is quite interesting how/why/what and where when it comes to incubation..

Same goes for the nesting part.
I have 3 primary nesting sites for my freckleds.
all are made from 15 liter "hammerplast" same as rubbermaid or so, plastic boxes.
One is in the ground, nesting material is dirt/sand temp. is around 77-79,

the next one is about 40cm over ground level, substrate sand/vermeculite/decaying wood, temp. 80-82 or so.

last one is about 100cm over groundlevel, substrate is decaying wood/ moss and temp is about 86-86

what is right, what is wrong? last year she used a nexbox at ground level with sand/dirt, maybe not this year.

Nesting and incubation is of great importance, and I try to give them as many opportunities as possible, but that is a bit hard with the incubation.
as I only recieve 1 cluth a year from my freckleds. at least I
did last year, and that was the same time as now.
So I don´t think she will lay more this year either, but that is only because I have not found the key to multiclutching in this species, but I am also just a newbie.

Frank how do you produce your freckleds?

regards
Rasmus

I would just go by what works and what doesn't.

Hopefully people working with this species will reply with what has worked for them. That will give you a good starting point.
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"Don't just use something because you read it worked, use that something because it does work. If you are to listen to anyone listen to your monitor."

You stated that your first attempt failed because the substrate was too wet. So why would you try the opposite extreme and go completely dry or even 2:1 on the watererlite? Most folks think 1:1 is the place to start and adjust from there.

The ground work is there. Why not start with the knowledge that others offer that has already been successful? T.orentalis eggs or corn snakes who the heck cares?!?!? If there is a known way to make them hatch why not do that first?

Just my thoughts no offense intended.

not the face.

Sorry

I want to set up one container with 2:1 perlite:water , and the other one dry. I have a good friend who breeds beadedlizards and he also hatches his eggs in dry vermeculite or perlite.
I can always add water if the eggs start to sink in.

I can´t do that if I put to much water in from the beginning.

no offence taken

I am trying to do what others have already done, but I am also taking last years failure into consideration.

I am aiming to a temp. of 82degrees in the incubator, and my humidity should be 90% or more.

that is not different than others.

regards
Rasmus

I hope it works out for you. I have lost eggs (not monitor) to too much water too. I hate loosing eggs.

Best of luck to you.

I did not mean to say they stayed consistant and do not change. I believe the key is, with a larger mass, they the wild eggs, change much slower or at a more even rate. I think the problem with captivity is, they simply change to quick. I was thinking that, did i not say that, hahahahahahahaha getting old is a bummerroo. FR