Reptile & Amphibian Forums

just wondering what key snakes i will need to make a variety of morphs...say, within a five year time span. i dont have a bottomless pocket book, so buying hets (young or adult) and breeding within a year or two to get the homo's is a viable option for me. I am looking for profitable snakes, but at the same time, will probably keep some of the nicer homo's for a "personal collection".

What do you recommend as a good STARTER breeding project? FWIW, it will be a hobby/profit thing, not solely about making money.

Thanks!

For starter projects:

I still like Het Albinos, Het Pieds and Pastels.

If your going the het route....then I wouldn't even bother buying a male this year. Only purchase your het females. You will need 2-3 years to get your girls ready.

Secondly, you still cannot beat the Pastel when it come to affordability and possible combinations. The cross options with that morph are limitless. Definitely get a male....and possible a couple females if you can afford it.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Het Ghost females.....another good investment
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

There are two kinds of morphs (my opinion) -- Base morphs and Mixer morphs.

Base morphs are the visually stunning pattern morphs (usually simple recessive) such as the Piebald, Clown, Spider, Genetic Stripe, etc.

Mixer Morphs are the visually stunning color morphs such as the Albino, Pastel, Ghost, Axanthic, etc.

Base morhs are the Barbie Dolls of the Ball Python world. Mixer morphs are the many different outfits she could wear. Dress her up and have fun.

(No! I don't play with Barbie Dolls! I never have! GI Joe only! Leave me alone!)

There are many different equally desirable base morphs. Choose your favorite. The most desirable mixer morphs seem to be Pastel, Ghost, and Albino. (However some people consider the Albino a base morph also. Who knows?)

Most every morph is in demand somewhere. Choose your favorite. Mix 'em up. You can't go wrong.

Good Things,
Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

Good info. When you mention albino, pied, pastel, etc, tell me what crossing certain morphs can produce. I know what the basics are, but the higher end morphs are still kind of a mystery to me.

Not counting the occassional anomaly, you should get exactly what you would expect.

Pastel X Ghost = Pastel Ghost
Orange Ghost X Spider = Orange Ghost Spider (Honey Bee)

In other words...you should get an animal that displays both genetic traits.

(Most of the Ball Python game is imagination.)

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

what can I do with albinos, pieds, and pastels?

Perhaps I don't understand your question. You could either sell them or breed them.

(Did I answer your question?)

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

Oh, I meant what kind of morphs are possible with any of the above. I cant afford a spider and any $5k morphs like that, at least yet.

Again...most of the Ball Python game is imagination. Let's imagine together...

1. Albino
2. Pastel
3. Piebald
4. Albino Pastel
5. Albino Piebald
6. Pastel Albino
7. Pastel Piebald
8. Pastel Albino Piebald

And of course you have the many Heterozygous varieties as well:

9. Pastel Het Albino
10. Albino Het Piebald
11. Pastel Double-Het Albino Piebald

(etc. etc. etc.)

Does this help at all?

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

Oops! I forgot:

Super Pastel Albino
Super Pastel Piebald
Super Pastel Albino Piebald

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

Say the guy started out this year with a pair of albino hets, a pair of pie hets and a male pastel...total cost: ~$2500-$3000...2-3 years before he gets a pie/albino, 2-3 before he makes a pastel het albino and pastel het pie, 2-3 before he can breed those and make a pastel albino and pastel pie (super pastel pie if he can hit the 1:16 odds), 2-3 years before he can make pastel double hets (again, super if he's lucky), and finally 2-3 more years before he can breed those together and pray that he hits the 1:64 odds (1:32 if he was lucky and one of the pastel double het is a super, 1:16 if they are both super).

Total time: 10-15 years...with the following assumptions:
1. He hits the 1:4 to make the pie and albino
2. He can hit the 1:2 to make pastel het pie or albino...sometimes it misses
3. Hits the 1:8 to hit the pastel pie and/or the 1:8 for the pastel albino
4. Again the 1:2 to hit the pastel double het (1:4 for the super dh) AND get a 1.1 pastel dh in this clutch.
5. And the big one, the 1:64 to hit the Super Pastel Albino Pied
6. And the final assumptions...everybody eats, no one dies, everyone breeds, and the snake gods are smiling upon him!

Like organic synthesis...it looks easy on paper, but in reality it's a TON of work!

Hey. The guy kept asking what he could make. I told him.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

"Let's imagine together"

Chris, yer startin' to sound like Mr. Rogers

Ok, I'll go sit in my corner now.

Quig

I'm closer to being Mr. Robinson. =)

(SNL: Eddie Murphy)

Chris =)
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

A pastel to a ghost (or any simple recessive) will produce a clutch that's 100% het for the homozygous trait. When you breed the siblings back to the simple recessive (in this case a pastel), you'll get a homozygous animal combined with the pastel genes.

Just thought I'd clarify this.

Ron

After reading what I posted, I felt the needed to clarify it further.

Let's say you're breeding an orange ghost female to a pastel male. The babies will come out normal looking and pastel looking. They will all be 100% het orange ghost, both pastels and normal looking. In order to get an animal that exhibits the visual qualities of an orange ghost combined with a pastel, you'd have to breed the pastel son(s) back to the mother.

The clutch will then yield an Orange Ghost Spider (Honey Bee)

Ron

hahaha! I keep kicking myself in the tail. Change the pastels to spiders in the prior post and you'll get honey bees

Either way, the same theory applies to pastels as well.

Chris,
Ghost is a recessive trait. Pastel and Spider are co-dominant. It is misleading (I'm sure unintentional), to say Pastel X Ghost will produce Pastel Ghost. In fact it will produce 50% Pastels Het. Ghost. and 50%(Normal)Het. Ghost. Same with Spider X Ghost.

You're right. It is misleading. I was keeping it simple and referring to end product only.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

Chris,
I've been trying to keep it simple for 3 years. It just gets more and more complicated(LOL.)And my collection keeps growing and growing!

The best advise I would have for you is to go for the mutation that you will enjoy above anything else! Profit will come afterwards, you don't have to worry about that. Demand for ball pythons is increasing every year with new hobbyist...

You need to consider your short and long term goals, recessive mutations take much longer to produce (specialy with hets!)BUT will always retain a greater value then dominant/co-dominant mutations which are now and will be produced in greater numbers then the recessive mutations...

What I think are going to be key recessive ingredients in the future;

-Ghost (Can be mixed with almost every other projects)
-Clown (A genetic pattern and mutation in one snake)
-Cinnamon Pastel (Imagine a Super Cinnamon dressed up within other mutations, a caramel albino super cinnamon, Purple snake!!!)
-Pastel (The bread and butter ball python that can be combine with most other mutations)
-Pieds (What more can be said, the most popular stand alone mutation - combos will be unreal mixed with pieds)

Go with what you like and you will enjoy the hobby that much more..

Brian A.

.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

With Pastel, Pied, Albino, Ghosts.......you can do the following:

Produce....

Pastels, Super Pastels, Hets of all the above, Pieds, Albinos, Ghosts, Pastels Het for all the above, Hypo/Pied, Albino/Pieds,Pastel/Albino,Pastel/Pieds, Pastel/Ghost, Super pastel/Pied, Super Pastel/Ghost, Super pastel everything, Ghost/Pied/Pastel........and the combos continue.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

I would go with what ever you want to work with be it albinos or spiders or mojaves. But IMO buy the females now and when they get close to breeding size then invest in the male. If you buy hets you can pick up a couple of different types but if you pick up homos you'll start out closer to being able to mix. But I've also seen a lot of people making serious cash selling the more affordable "het pairs" cause lets face it there are a lot more people out there that can afford $1700 pair of het pieds than a $7000 pied. IMHO it's best to work with what you like and the money will come.
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Tosha

8.15.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
1.0.0 Angolan Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.3 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Well I like albinos and pastels. I have been wanting to pick up a pair of hets. Ive seen pairs of 100% hets from a breeder for $625 shipped. seems good to me?

One of the things I wish I had done, would have been to buy a load of normal CH females. You can get fresh CH females right now for 20-30 bucks a piece in lots of 20-100. You'll always need normal females for any of your projects but they also take 3-4 years to reach breeding size. Buy the females now and in a year or two start buying your males. This will also give you a year or so to figure out if you actually like ball pythons. If not, you can then sell the much larger females for a profit and be done with them. Otherwise you can then buy the (by then) cheaper males for breeding to your now mature and ready females.

Mark

>>just wondering what key snakes i will need to make a variety of morphs...say, within a five year time span. i dont have a bottomless pocket book, so buying hets (young or adult) and breeding within a year or two to get the homo's is a viable option for me. I am looking for profitable snakes, but at the same time, will probably keep some of the nicer homo's for a "personal collection".
>>
>>What do you recommend as a good STARTER breeding project? FWIW, it will be a hobby/profit thing, not solely about making money.
>>
>>Thanks!

thats good advice. i have actually been thinking about buying a small number of captive hatched females. thing is, at this moment i dont have any rack system in place yet. is it OK to keep 2 or 3 females in the same 40 gallon aquarium?

I wouldn't go with aquariums at all. Aquariums are nice for people who only have a few animals for display or for pets. Aquariums are harder to keep stable heat, harder to clean and the ventilation isn't all that great. Get some plastic shoe boxes, set your snakes up individually and build a rack around the shoe boxes. The rack doesn't have to be extravigant, just something that holds the boxes.

Mark

>>thats good advice. i have actually been thinking about buying a small number of captive hatched females. thing is, at this moment i dont have any rack system in place yet. is it OK to keep 2 or 3 females in the same 40 gallon aquarium?