Reptile & Amphibian Forums

High all,

I'm looking to start breeding balls.Not to make money, but that wont hurt any. I want an albino ball, first, but there are so many others I want too. My money is very limited so the only way I could get an albino is to breed hets, or trade a few(if not all) of my burms'. well I'm not going to give up the burms so I got to breed.I did breed burms a few times, so I'm not new to breeding.

What I have as a plan is to buy a 100% het albino male, then breed him to the 5 CH females I have, plus I hope to be getting another 5 females in the next few weeks. I'm going to breed the male to all the females I can get, then back breed to the father.I guess it's the long way,but it's the only way I can think off, I tried the save your money way and something always comes up.

Now IF all goes as planned and that is a big IF, is it realistic to hope to have an albino in say 5-6 years? Can anyone think of a faster way to get an albino for only $500.00?

Thanks.

There really isn't any market for 50% het albinos when you can get a 100% het albino for a little over $100. Obviously you don't mind the wait - so if I were you I'd get as many females that you can take care of and raise them up for 2-3 years until breeding size and sell them off. If you can pick up 20-25 females with $500 you should be able to make enough to buy your albino keep a couple of them for breeding and go from there. Just my opinion.
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Tosha

"Of course, this is just my opinion...and I believe I am God." -- Christopher Bianco

8.15.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
1.0.0 Angolan Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.3 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

You have a good idea with raising the females, I hadn't thought about that.I need to raise the females for the het anyway, About the 50%'rs I was planning to keep all the females and to sell a few of the males but just as normals. I wouldn't buy a 50%'er, so I know most others wouldn't. Besides I get what $10.00 more if I sell them as 50% het's.

I do hope to get a few albinos, one or two to keep for me but maybe a few to sell, so I can get the higher up balls I want too. Like I said, I'm not doing this to make alot of money, I just have champaign(sp?) taste on a beer pocket book.

But I will make room for some females to raise to sell in a few years, that is a realy good idea, if i can do that then maybe I could buy an albino female for the het., now that would rock!!!!!

Thanks

If you bought 500 dollars in baby females this year by time they are up to the 1500 gram mark the prices for other morphs will have come way down. I will be trading baby male pastels this year for two 2000 plus gram captive rat eating females to as many people that have them and want to trade. By the time yours are up to size I will be able to trade out some albino males and het females for some big girls. And maybe other morphs for the right amount of females.

Honestly I think you'd be putting too many eggs in one basket by relying soley on the 50% female offspring. It may work it may not. If your current 5 ladies are ready to breed pick up a pastel and breed the pastel this season and then pick up an albino male with the money from them. Then you'll have albinos and pastels to work with. Nothing wrong with your plan, but personally I wouldn't rely on 50%ers thats all, thats my opinion I've been known to be wrong.
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Tosha

"Of course, this is just my opinion...and I believe I am God." -- Christopher Bianco

8.15.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
1.0.0 Angolan Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.3 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Tosha, we finally agree on something.LOL. Do exactly what Tosha says and you'll have your albino next year, that is if you can breed a snake. LOL

...at least i'm a year ahead of sombody..lol

Just got him today.

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Charles Glaspie

Awesome pastel were did you get him. Thanks mike.

Hey thanks Mike,i got him from David Evans.
Here is a link to a pic of the clutch.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=766427,766615

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Charles Glaspie

Spend all of your money on one large Normal female. You could easily offer this large Normal female out on a breeding loan. (Co-doms only.) This would grant you at least one nice expensive morph hatchling to trade for an Albino.

(Example: Loan out a 2500g Normal female in exchange for one Spider hatchling.)

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

Chris - If you had a breeding spider male - would you do a breeding loan with this guy? I mean - in all probablity what are the chances that he (or anyone that is not known or well established) would be able to find someone willing to do a breeding loan? Not knocking the theory but just wondering on the probablity.
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Tosha

"Of course, this is just my opinion...and I believe I am God." -- Christopher Bianco

8.15.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
1.0.0 Angolan Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.3 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

Yea,

With all the bad I hear now a days I don't think a breeding lone is going to happen. anyway my females are only about 700-837(The biggest)grms so I'v got some time till they are ready to breed.

I'm realy liking this get more females and raise them, I have a ton of room, I breed my own feeders and build my own cages,+ I have the time, so I could very easely raise a good # of females.

Thank you for this idea, I realy like it.

Raising hatchling females can net you some cash, but I think if you project the actual costs of raising a hatchling up to breeding size (3 years)I think it would take at least $100 to $150 per animal to raise them. I know it really isn't this simple as the snakes will eat different sizes and numbers of rats as the grow, and some may go off feed for awhile but assuming 1 rat per week the math works something like this. 3 years x 52 weeks per year x 1 rat per week 156 rats. Even if you assumed that you would get them up to a respectable size in two years, it would still take 104 rats. Depending on your cost for raising rats you can get an idea of the cost.
I am not saying it is a bad plan to raise hatchlings to sell for cash, just make sure you don't get more hatchlings than you can afford to feed and take care of. 100 sub adult to adult balls eating 1 rat per week will cost at least $75 per week even if you are raising all of your own rats. If you are buying them, it will be more like $150 per week.
Just know what your getting into.

As of now I go through 15-20 rats per week depending on who is in shed and what not, It only cost me about $40.00 a month to raise the rats.I get the food and pine in bulk.Yes It will cost x amount to feed the females, but I don't need to pay it all at once, and that helps a lot.

thanks for bringing it up though, anyone who reads this and thinks of doing the same thing might of over looked the cost of breeding the rats.

Thanks

do a spider breeding lone with someone who has 1 big female and then GIVE them a spider...it doesn't make sense. Maybe if they have 10 2000g females, but not 1.

I will probably catch some flak for this, but Oh well. I understand your point of view, and I'm sure most breeders feel the way you do. But to my mind if my 'normal' female gets loaned out to someone with a Spider or any morph for that matter, to act as stud. Then I feel I should indeed get one full blood out of the deal. The female, after all, carries the developing eggs to term (what 55-60 days?) The stress and loss of body weight to try and regain for next year, and whatever else is incured by her in that lenght of time. Her health is jeopardized. The male is ONLY asked to "Donate." Yes, no? Mind you this is only MY opinion, but it makes sense to me.

Quig

I know several people doing it right now for animals more expensive than the Spider. I would definitely give someone a Spider, Mojave, or Cinnamon for loaning me a large proven breeder Normal female. Why is this crazy? If the 3000g proven female drops twice as many eggs than an average 1500g female...why not? That female just gave you a few more FREE hatchlings.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

...in the following years you (and the rest of us)will be competing with a seller that did not pay for his genetics.This means that he could sell for HALF of what you are asking,and not lose a dime...
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Charles Glaspie

Charles, I understand your concern, but to my mind at least, cutthroats don't have a place in this business. Don't have an answer for dealing with those kind of people, but there are those in every business. Eventually they are their own ruination.
Just thankin' out loud again.

Quig

O.K.

First off I would NEVER try to under cut someone!!

2nd I'm not in it for the money just the love off the snakes!!

3rd SO WHAT, if pearson A can sell his snakes for 1/2 price of person B how the he!! is it anyones business but his.

I guess that 7-11 down the road that has gas for $.10 less a gal is killing the market. That makes no sense at all.

Anyway I just want to have the snakes for me, not so I can get rich selling them.

Thank god the people who breed dogs don't think like you, he!! a rott would cost $20,000.00

Sorry if I sound a little hard but from your post it looks to me like all you care about is how much money you can make!!

God I hope I'm wrong about that!!!

Keep in mind this is an open forum.I only posted my view on the topic.It was not intending it to be an attack on yourself.

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Posted by: RuHigh at Mon May 2 19:20:23 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

O.K.

First off I would NEVER try to under cut someone!!

2nd I'm not in it for the money just the love off the snakes!!

3rd SO WHAT, if pearson A can sell his snakes for 1/2 price of person B how the he!! is it anyones business but his.

I guess that 7-11 down the road that has gas for $.10 less a gal is killing the market. That makes no sense at all.

Anyway I just want to have the snakes for me, not so I can get rich selling them.

Thank god the people who breed dogs don't think like you, he!! a rott would cost $20,000.00

Sorry if I sound a little hard but from your post it looks to me like all you care about is how much money you can make!!

God I hope I'm wrong about that!!!

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1)Good for you.Seriously,its nice to see that some people still have respect(for the person that would help them into the morphs to begin with).

2)Then why not breed normals,and be happy?

3)This contradicts your "First off" statment.

4)Comparing gas to rare genetically mutated animals?
This has "apples and oranges" written all over it...

5)At no time did i make mention of any potentially lost revenues.

6)Don't blame me,i was not the original breeder that priced these genetic lines to begin with...Besides,your refering to a normal Rott.I am quite sure that if a line of pink and purple Rotts ever hit the public,they would be priced accordingly.(Again,not by ME.)

7)Nope,just how much i stand to lose.

Never assume anything.You do not know me.Or how i think.

Have a nice day.
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Charles Glaspie

You do bring up some good points.

That said, I still think anyone can sell anything at any price they want.

If they are good and have healthy snakes let them. I don't see how it would hurt me in any way. But most people who would under cut anyone would also be kinda F%%ked up, and more likly then not so would thier snakes.

I thought you were trying to judge me, I Guess I was wrong, I'm sorry.

I do plan to breed normals too, I just like the albino's and spiders, ext....to many to list.But not to breed for money, infact if I did get a spider I most likley would not breed it. I just want one to have one.

Have a good day.

Yes...but that huge loaned female gave you extra (free) hatchlings -- extra (free) hatchlings that you didn't pay for either. All is fair.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

allbeit, cheaper to sell hatchlings , but free just the same.

Quig

Chris,

Sounds like I should hold on to my big females and work out a loan with you!!! And here I'm considering trading them for a pastel male... Mojaves are my "ulimate dream" morph. You don't happen to be on the East Coast by any chance?
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Tammy

0.3 Ball Pythons
0.0.1 Dwarf Caimen
0.0.1 Baby Sav
0.0.2 Nile Monitors
0.1 Siamese Cat (Rescue)
1.0 Yellow Lab (Rescue) "Perfect Dog"
0.1 Bernese Mountain Dog (Rescue) "Brainless Wonder"

South Carolina. Born and raised in VA Beach. =)

And if you really want to discuss the possibility of a loan...let me know. I'd be happy to consider the idea.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

.breeder loan of a spider to a normal and give the loaner of the female a spider baby>?.....females are cheap and the spider male would be worth $4000.........the spider owner can buy their own girls for the $4000.......

today........female balls ..BIG ones......$20 all over the show...so you people spending a crapper load on females are getting fooled alot of times by people getting these wild girls at $20 then lying and selling them as proven for $hundreds.......

.........you are correct in doing the long way if you want to spend no money.you can get a het male for $100 and more girls for the rest of the money.......get them now and raise them for 3 years.......

.....as for getting a pastel.he said $500 and pastels are more like $750 ........

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The point is not what you can buy a female for, yes you can get them pretty cheap if you are in the right place at the right time. The point is that breeding season or not you can easily sell a 1500 gram female for $300 or more. If you've got 20 or 25 of them your return on a $500 investment is pretty good. Yes people are passing off WC crap for proven and are getting hundreds of dollars for them, with that in mind what do you think someone selling a very clean healthy eating female complete with feeding records would be worth. Cause I aint seeing many of them that last longer than a couple of hours in the classified. Everyone needs breedable females. Just a thought.
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Tosha

"Of course, this is just my opinion...and I believe I am God." -- Christopher Bianco

8.15.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
1.0.0 Angolan Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.3 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

(I wonder if that title will catch anyone's eye! No, I'm not
suggesting that albinos and pieds will that cheap, even in 2009...)

In my opinion, this is quite possible. Here's how you
could do it:
Buy 1 male het albino and 1 male het pied (late '04 babies).
Buy a couple more females that will be breedable size for
the '05/'06 season.
Raise up those baby males for this fall (or for early breeding
in the spring).
If you are able to get several clutches, you will be on your way!
Raise up the 50% het females. Some may be ready by the '07/'08
breeding season and give you albinos and pieds in 2008...that's
just 3 years from now!
I'd say, give yourself a 1 year buffer in case things don't
work out as planned and you should have some albinos and pieds
in 2009 (4 years from now). If you want albinos and some other
recessive morph (ghosts, axanthics, ect), you could probably do
the same...

If you aren't interested in pieds, and just want to go for some
albinos, you could have them sooner. Buy a het male and several
50% het female albinos (FROM SOMEONE THAT YOU KNOW IS SELLING YOU
ACTUAL 50% HETS). Then you could produce albinos in 2007.

Best of luck, and WELCOME to the addictive/wonderful world of
ball pythons!
Chris Simone
www.SimoneReptiles.com

OR If its possible you could save up about 200 to 400 more depends on where you find them and buy a 100%het pair. I've seen them for between 650 to 900 depends on whos selling them and so on. But like everyone else was saying if you get like 20 to 30 of the little girls in a year or two you could easily sell them for 300 bucks and up.

and do a lot of searching, you could possibly find 1.1 100% het albinos out there for 5-600 a pair. just make sure you go with someone who is reputable.