Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been coming to this forum for pushing three years now and it has been an extremely helpful way to keep a pulse on the market....general info....new morphs....etc.

However, one thing that I have noticed that is really beginning to get under my skin a bit is how many people get whaled on for asking a innocent question.

Many times people will ask question about their snakes being possible morphs...or market questions...and so on. It never fails...2 or more people will blast the person because maybe the question has been asked before...or because it may not be the morph they were hoping it to be and so on.

This frustrates me. Many of the people asking these questions are new to owning or breeding ball pythons. They are future customers of potentially you and me. They are pumped...it is new to them...they see huge potential times 10 in every animal. The market has them fired up. Earning money has them excited. Why put that flame out???

Chill out...we all had a million questions when we got started. We all had unrealistic expectations at times. Support and encourage these people....it only makes the market more healthy for future growth.

If you notice not many large breeders even post here anymore. I wonder Why?

I certainly not against controversy...and debates. But please lose the arrogance.....

If you don't have a helpful thing to say...it may be in the bet interest of this forum for you not to post. I know...it certainly is your right to post anything you want...but understand what you say does matter and if I was a new guy and had to put up with some of the arrogance on this forum....I'd stop posting.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

the world is full of self-serving individuals who find comfort in attacking others.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I wish people could just post without someone jumping their shorts. It's ridiculous at times....I'm an idealist.

I wonder who is going to get slammed this week because they want to know more about a Yellow Belly?

Cut these new guys some slack for goodeness sakes....there excited and just want to learn more. Thinking you have a cool sleeper in your collection that could be some kind of morph is what makes this whole ball thing so fun.

Instead of people encouraging these guys to breed it out and wish them the best of luck....they kick their teeth in and tell them (essentially) they are an idiot for thinking it was anything other then a "lousy" normal.

You can just see the flame going out on these new guys....very frustrating to watch....grrrrr. I'm not looking for fluffyville...just people that can communicate while respecting others....without belittling.

Your right....probably a bit pie in the sky to think it will stop.

Thanks for your support Jay....you are consistently encouraging and helpful to people on this forum.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

I agree. And while I try to exercise understanding, patience, and kindness with every post, I do admit that my intensions are sometimes not clearly expressed. I often make silly or absurd comments in an attempt to lighten a mood. (Or perhaps just to amuse myself.) Sometimes these comments may be misinterpreted and cause offense. For these unfortunate instances...I sincerely apologize.

And for all of you novice Ball Python enthusiasts out there, please remember...nothing is written in stone. Nearly every experienced breeder has a different opinion, viewpoint, or way of doing things. Many are equally valid and worth investigating.

So read, ask, learn...and above all know this: My word is law.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

LOL Yeah, except that 'My word is law' stuff

I was just thinking...if you were the one in the Garden of Eden...and the snake asked you to eat the apple...would you:

A) Eat the apple.
B) Refuse the apple.
C) Forget the apple and grab the snake.

Just Curious,
Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

NP

I'm envisioning a snake twirling on a spit with an apple in his mouth. But maybe its a flashback of my last trip to Luau. Not sure.
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Tosha

"Of course, this is just my opinion...and I believe I am God." -- Christopher Bianco

8.15.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
1.0.0 Angolan Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.3 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

LOL ME?? C

Quig

Now i have to tell you my theory on the subject.

I think the apple represented meat.(Don't get me wrong,i'm no vegetarian!)
Why?
What do snakes eat?
I'll leave the rest to imagination...
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Charles Glaspie

Well said.

I'm a member of another Ball Python forum, too, and someone there asked about putting a gold fish in her new Ball Python's water bowl because someone else who was new to Ball Pythons thought it might be eaten and vary its diet. She asked the forum . . . and boy did that create a firestorm!

She was blasted for having "not done the most basic research" before posting her querry -- but doing research is what she WAS doing! She didn't realize the forum she needed to be her place of "last resort" to search for answers. Believe me, the way she was treated . . . she gets that now!

There are many, many people reading these forums that don't post. The way we treat each other on this forum can have farther reaching effects than many seem to realize, including turning MANY people off to posting, turning people off to purchasing on Kingsnake, turning people off to Ball Pythons, and causing negative word of mouth when they talk with others.

Let's not make this a forum of "last resort" for people to ask their questions, no matter how ridiculas we might think a question to be. It'd be much better to treat each others posts like questions asked by a close, personal friend. We wouldn't shoot 'em down or embarass them -- we'd explain the answer they seek in a polite and kind way that would encourage and keep their friendship. That is the kind of forum environment we should strive for here.

-- Joe

That is exactly what I'm seeing here as well. People will ask questions that are highly uneducated. THATS OK!!!!!!

At least they are ASKING!!!!!!!!!

That's what we want. We want people that sincerly want to know more and improve the care of their animals. If people spent the same amount of energy actually supplying helpful suggestion and encourament as they do ripping newbies our Ball Pythons would be much better off.

I'm glad you feel the same way....we need to confront these people more frequently so they don't destroy what could be a very positive, helpful and informational forum.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

I've noticed the harsh responses too. I think one thing that would really help this situation would a BALL PYTHON F.A.Q. page. Maybe I missed it if there is one already, but frankly I'm shocked there isn't a F.A.Q. page on all the kinsnake forums to hedge some of the most common questions.

To be honest some of the same questions DO get asked over and over again by folks new to the hobby/trade.
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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon(Ziggy)
0.1.0 Royal/Ball Python(Not named yet)

Actually there is a FAQ page. The link is located with all the other links at the top of the page. I included it below for reference. You are certainly free to post the link in response to basic questions.

Another point I like to make in regards of bashing, flaming or directly attacking any poster, no matter what sort of question asked, It is against the TOS to attack other posters or people on the forums. Debate is welcome but debate facts, not start name calling etc. Which is why posts will disapear if the content violates the TOS. Remember, it isn't your right to post here, it is a Privilege, hence the need to register and agree to the TOS.
FAQ

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PHLdyPayne

>>I think one thing that would really help this situation would a BALL PYTHON F.A.Q. page. Maybe I missed it if there is one already, but frankly I'm shocked there isn't a F.A.Q. page on all the kinsnake forums to hedge some of the most common questions.
>>

The Troubshooting Guide to Ball Pythons has been hosted on kingsnake.com for quite some time (about 4 years give or take); available through the "Care Sheets/FAQs/Features" sectional link found at the very top of any of the KS pages: http://www.kingsnake.com/features.html

In light of this current topic of conversation, I have spent the day fully updating the ball python forum description to the new format we are slowly but surely converting all the KS forums to as well as updating the subforum screens.

Included in these updates are more noticeable resource links pertaining to the species of the individual forums.

If members want to see more articles on ball pythons listed in this section, it will have to be up to someone to write them and get them hosted on the care sheet/faq page first (later, KS hosted articles can be added to the forum description). If anyone wants to attempt the project of creating more current ball python articles on various subjects, please feel free to contact the features editor (select the appropriate department in the drop down menu): http://www.pethobbyist.com/contact/index.php

Additionally, a "Resource & Help" type post has been pinned on the ball python forum for those that wish to read it. This post was based on a similar post that the chameleon forum members had requested several weeks ago.

If anyone thinks I have left something out that might be of use to the ball python community, please let me know.

--
PHWyvern

PetHobbyist.com Site-wide Forum Coordinator
Site Coordinator/Forum Leader for:
* kingsnake.com - kingsnake.ca - kingsnake.co.uk
* InsectHobbyist.com
* ExoticHobbyist.com

http://www.pethobbyist.com

I'm very new to the BP world (5 whole weeks now - and things are going great). I've learned alot from this forum, and I think it's very informative.

But I don't post too often (i'm a lookie-loo). I WILL ask a question once in a while, but I rarely put in my 2-cents, when it comes to replying (I know there are quite a few experts out there who know much more than I do).

There are some very nice and helpful people here, and I sometimes think about sending them an e-mail, instead of posting on the forum (fear of sounding like an idiot).

I want to thank everyone who has helped me get into BPs, and thank Bob Clark for geting me started with some awesome animals!!!
Ken
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0.5 Normal Ball Pythons (Norma, Nova, Nala, Nimeesha, Nyoka)
1.1 Argentine B/W Tegus (Draco and Drucilla)
0.1 Columbian B/W Tegu (Diablo)
1.0 Black Throat Monitor (Razor)
1.0 Desert Tortoise (Tubbs) from Tortoise Rescue
1.0 Boxer (Shadow)
0.1 Feline (CK)
1.0 Memory of my Redtail Boa (Mo) which passed away after 28 years

Ken, some of the guys responding to this post would propably be great candidates to answer your questions.....Nothing like Ballin. Welcome to the club.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Great post!

Tony Hurt
Snake Evolutions

and I completely agree - I can't even count how many times in the past couple of weeks that I've given advise on how to remove a bad shed or why won't my snake eat or can I move him up to a bigger rat size. But these are legitimate questions that someone should answer and many times they go unanswered or the person who asked them gets shot down by others. I've been around balls most of my life and I'm glad to help when I can, but I get hate e-mail for being a "know it all" yet there are people on here that blatantly ridicule others for their own enjoyment and boast about it. There truely is something not right about that. When it's all said and done it's not about who has the biggest collection, or the best looking snakes, its about the snakes and our love and appreciation of them. BTW - I agree a little joking or ribbing amoungst friends is good, sometimes this forum can use a bit of levity - thank you Chris B. you are my spark of light in this forum! - LOL.
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Tosha

"Of course, this is just my opinion...and I believe I am God." -- Christopher Bianco

8.15.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and currently un-named)
1.0.0 Angolan Python
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Dessert Tortoise (Pope)
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.3 Lizards rescued from pool skimmer

You can be my deputy spark. (There is no badge.)

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

I have been posting on here for just a little longer than you...... maybe a year or so longer..... in that time I have seen many "know it alls" come and go in this forum.

But the bashing is not limited to just the novice..... Do a search for the big name breeders in the old archives and you will see why some of the top guns dont post on here. You will be suprised to at what you will find...

The whole "Do I have a Morph" thing has been going on for years. I got into a heated debate back in 01 about it. Its never going to change. People just get off on bashing others. Makes them fell better about themselves. You know Junior High Bully crap.....

The key is to ignore them. The Pricks tend to just banish while the kind hearted stick around. Dont sweat it and dont feed into them. We just have to educate the good and ignore the Bad.....

Just my .02 cents

Raul

I have been posting for over 5 years and see the same things over and over. Periodically, I "go away" to take a break from the childish behavior. Most of the time I ignore those undesirables. And they do go away or at least slow down.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

These people who are getting their thrills by tearing a newbie apart will have karma turn around and bite them is the a$$ sooner or later. When they start placing ads or start a website alot of people wont give them a second look. I know that there are some people on this forum I would never buy from due to there attitude problem.

If you are one of the posters that seem to enjoy being rude to people may I suggest taking a midol or two before entering the forum.

When they start placing ads or start a website alot of people wont give them a second look. I know that there are some people on this forum I would never buy from due to there attitude problem.

Interesting that you mention this. This is one of my tips for buying - listed on my website. There are some posters posts I don't even read.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

a list of people I will not do business with as a result of how they communicate on this site. It says a tremendous amount about their character.

I won't share the list........
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Yep! And I was just mentioning this to a buddy of mine the other day. There are a few people on here who will never earn my business due to how they treat others in the public forum.

I'm making my list and checking it twice. I'm gonna find out who's naughty...and if that naughty girl wants to come over to my place when the wife's at work.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

LOLOL Chris, sometimes you even make MY day. Yer a card you are.

Quig

So many naughty girls...so little money for alimony. I think I'll stick with my wife.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

Often times I just look at and read as much of the posts as possible. I've learned a lot but there is much more to learn and for fear of sounding like an idiot I just wait and hopefully someone will post the same question and have it answered by a few good people and ridiculed by many others. Like many of you guys have said on the upper posts we are here for the love of the hobby and what a great hobby it is. I can’t think of a more rewarding hobby out there. Maybe in the future I will posts more questions and hopefully answer a few along the way. Very good subject!!

Louie

Because of a few arrogant people there is a fear to post. I have also observed that Newbies have to apologize up and down before they even ask a question.......like you are a second class citizen. It's like they are anticipating the punishment so they apologize in advance.

Post away bro.....we'll protect you from the knob. Or e-mail some guys direct.
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Jim Perron
Python Passion Reptiles
pythonpassion@hotmail.com
www.pythonpassionreptiles.com

.

I haven't posted in months due to this. My last post was very similar to the first post in this thread. I really liked this forum but just had enough, at the time, of that kind of crap.

I have been receiving my information other ways now when I have a question. But definatley troll through this forum. Still love to read the worth while threads.

Unfortunatley, there are a lot of people in this world that just like to be negative towards people any chance they get.

Oh well! no need to dwell on it. Lighten up people! Have fun with this stuff. It may be a job to some of you but honestly, its a dream of a job no matter how you put it.

-Bill

I'm one of the noobs who had a single ball python around 10 years ago and is looking to get back into it (I gave my ball to a cousin a few years back). Despite having kept snakes for many years, I realize that I didn't have a clue on proper husbandry. (I wasn't alone. Even a prominent reptile store in the SF Bay Area gave misguided advice, such as suggesting that you can get rid mites easily with a simply 5 minute daily soak. And I hadn't heard of anyone encouraging f/t feeding until fairly recently.) Even with today's internet resources, information remains scattered and often contradictory. So even if the experts start going bonkers answering the same old questions over and over, please know that your responses are much appreciated and helpful for us noobs. Thanks and keep up the good work!

As for those who flame the beginners, I sadly think that (1) it's an unavoidable reality that experienced people get annoyed by beginner questions and (2) this partly results from the design of the forum. I think this forum could use a beginner's section where newbies would feel comfortable and enable the experienced breeders to maintain "higher level" discussions (e.g., genetics, market pricing/demand, business management questions, etc.) elsewhere. To make this work, at least a handful of experts would have to be willing to help the newbies out in the beginner forum.

Also, the forum would benefit from a comprehensive, user generated FAQ page or site where newbies could check the FAQ first. Making this site user-generated would allow the site to morph with prevailing knowledge. (Actually, in thinking through this a bit, maybe I'll throw something together and ask for everyone's help filling out the details. I know that this FAQ would help me given that my baby ball arrives Wed.! Stay tuned.)

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their help on the newbie questions!

Bruce

"As for those who flame the beginners, I sadly think that (1) it's an unavoidable reality that experienced people get annoyed by beginner questions and (2) this partly results from the design of the forum. I think this forum could use a beginner's section where newbies would feel comfortable and enable the experienced breeders to maintain "higher level" discussions (e.g., genetics, market pricing/demand, business management questions, etc.) elsewhere."

This is a very interesting paragraph.

Chris
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“The problem with the Ball Python market rests in the advertisement of true morphs versus pseudo-morphs. Many people are simply taking Normal animals for Granite." – CJBianco

"As for those who flame the beginners, I sadly think that (1) it's an unavoidable reality that experienced people get annoyed by beginner questions"

Those who are annoyed don't have to answer questions. No one is being forced to post feedback or answer questions... at least I think there is no one forcing them to... I haven't looked behind me lately, hold on and let me check.................................
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

LOL, after the mistakes you made with the critters ya listed, are you sure those are a wife and kids? :-0

Quig

I lurk in most all of the K.S. forums and post mainly in the rat snake forum.Never seen so much throat cutting and bashing like the likes of the B.P. forum!I have been raising and breeding corns,rats,and kings for years and just started a B.P. collection consisting of 1.1 Het. pies and a normal female and I won't post a ? in here due to all the B.S. I see in here.
Seems to be too much ignorance towards others.

Thank you Jim! I am one of the people who has been bashed on for asking simple questions. Thank you for posting this! Unfortunately there are a lot of people who are rude, and dont care about the feelings of others. I am new to the ball python market, and hope to grow as big as some of you out there. I have big plans on purchasing some high end morphs towards the end of this year, and having my first babies next year! I already bought a male pastel a few months ago...so hopefully I am well on my way Thanks again!

Melody

Thank you for saying that Jim. I am one of the people that you talk about. I have only had my two snakes for three years. I don't know a lot but I know what I have delt with. Many times I am hesitant to post something for fear of looking stupid. I was very excited when I "discovered" this Forum. I have learned a lot but I too have noticed people being a bit impatient with the rest of us newbies. Take a chill pill you guys. If you can't be helpful then don't post.

Hey Jim, why don't you name these arrogant sob's so I can give them a piece of my mind.LOL.

1, Chinese monkey weavle(Frank)
2, Black spotted ant eating calabondi toads(Eddie and Lou)
2, 6 legged asian monkey toads.(Harry and Sally )
7, Russian grasshoppers(Grumpy, Happy,Sleepy,Dopey, Sneezey, etc...)
2, Red headed spotted pigeon geese. (Alex and Simmey)
1, Alligator dung beetle. (Jeremy)
1, Fat a$$ pot belly pig (Ralph)aka Chub Rock

hey man?.......where did you get them redheaded pigeon geese ?....sell me some eggs........

.......and the 6 legged monkey toads were stolen from Evil Kenivel....damn.how'd you get them?.....
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.................

I have breed sevaral kinds of snakes and lizards for many years and just started breeding balls and thought I should ask about breeding on this forum. but most of the responds were people kicking the crap out of me like this was a privite forum for pros, only! so I stopped posting here tell I started producing ball eggs and felt I had no were else to turn but here again. most people were much more helpful now that I was more like them. but just a few days ago (if you read the answers to some of my posts you will see that by me not knowing some things I must be an idiot all over again! and as others have said, people like me are the future ball pros and we do remember whom say what! and those people will get no sells or refs, from me. P.S. those of us that are new here dont know when your kidding either ! thank you to the rest of you!

JIM

LOL

LOL means Laugh Out Loud, LOL

LOL