Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all!
I'm moving shortly and will be building some outside enclosures (see 'How Hot is Too Hot'). All the cages I've built before were built using aluminum wire or shade cloth. I plan to build enclosures using 1/2 hardware cloth, borrowing heavily from a rabbit hatch I already have. Because of the material, I will be switching over to cup feeding rather than free-ranging my crickets/prey items offered.
I would like some opinions and input about using hardware cloth and issues to consider when cup feeding, as I've always free-ranged. Anything I should consider before making the switch, something I'm overlooking?
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

Problem with hardware cloth is two fold - bugs. They can get out, and IN. Mosquitoes can be a problem, as well as botflies. Also, hardware cloth tends to make itself more desireable to climb on than screen, and they can spend more time on it than screen. IT can also damage their feet. The wire cuts into the underside of their toes. PVC coated HC helps, but is expensive as heck.

I made one 12'x8'x8' several years ago. I put up6 4x4's for the corners and the middle, and some 2x2's in between to support the screen (48" wide). they loved it. NEver saw my male overheat - not even in th edead of August in NC - 99 degrees outside, and the sucker was at the top, basking in full colors. It NEVER got too hot for him, and he was a little guy - 13". As long as there was ventilation, he was fine. Also, the only water he got was from morning dew.

The best part of large outdoor cages is they give you the room to put the male with females. You get to see some amazing behaviors, and they actually co-exist very well , as long as they have space. The females would sleep next to the male, but move away in the morning.

Eric:
Thanks for the input, really appreciate it as always.
>>Problem with hardware cloth is two fold - bugs. They can get out, and IN. Mosquitoes can be a problem, as well as botflies. Also, hardware cloth tends to make itself more desireable to climb on than screen, and they can spend more time on it than screen. IT can also damage their feet. The wire cuts into the underside of their toes. PVC coated HC helps, but is expensive as heck.
I never thought about bugs getting in, and I never even considered BOTFLIES (had to look em up, thanks for that tasty bit of info). I would definitely like to hear more opinions about them (botflies), as I wouldn't think they would bother chameleons. The human botfly is out of Central America and Mexico, so I don't think I have anything to worry as far as they go. However, I might reconsider going with 1/2 Hardware cloth. Still tossing ideas back and forth, you know. Did you use screen for your larger enclosures? I wonder where
I could get PVC coated hardware cloth; this isn't something that Home Depot normally carries.
>>I made one 12'x8'x8' several years ago. I put up6 4x4's for the corners and the middle, and some 2x2's in between to support the screen (48" wide). they loved it. NEver saw my male overheat - not even in th edead of August in NC - 99 degrees outside, and the sucker was at the top, basking in full colors. It NEVER got too hot for him, and he was a little guy - 13". As long as there was ventilation, he was fine. Also, the only water he got was from morning dew.
I agree that 99 isn't too bad of an issue. Heck, it got to 105 when I was in Riverside and my veileds didn't seem to mind it one bit. I was using misters because of the dry conditions. But this is Phoenix- I'm told that it gets to 125 during the worst weeks. I'm wondering if this would be too hot, even using shade and misters
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>>The best part of large outdoor cages is they give you the room to put the male with females. You get to see some amazing behaviors, and they actually co-exist very well , as long as they have space. The females would sleep next to the male, but move away in the morning.
Yet ANOTHER point to consider! I used to allow my Jacksons to free range in my greenhouse part-time. You are right, their behaviors were more complex than the average chameleon keeper realizes. Most of the 'talking' was male-to-male or male-to-female. Most females weren't too talkative directly. They did know their place in ranks and RARELY challenged the status-quo. Very unlike the males.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

I imagine male - male behavior would be facinating, I wouldn't risk it though. The animals seem to learn how to behave at an early age, and if they are housed alone, they are essentially delinquent rapists!
Let a young male be near females, and the non-receptive females will teach him a lesson about what WARNING COLORS mean. They will never attempt to mate with a female that is non receptive - it forces them to go through the whole courtship ritual, displaying, bobbing, shifting colors, uncurling their tail like crazy...

Plus, they will get pushed around by bigger males in the wild - in captivity, they don't know what it's like to get pushed around, and they think they can take on anyone - which is why my smaller male escaped and attacked the bigger one years ago...who ripped the skin off his jaw. Had he gotten roughed up as a child, he would have known better.

If you threw in two males who were never socialized, they will fight to the death. Similarly, if you throw in a male an female who were never socialized, the male will mate with the female - receptive or not.

The nicest, friendliest, most relaxed veileds I've seen were housed together as a pair or trio.

Botflies can infect reptiles, but I'm not sure if the ones here do. I know they'll get rabbits, cattle and other mammals... I swear, I hate them...disgusting parasites...

PVC coated HC is usually expensive the local ACE has it,but it's over a dollar a foot for 36" width.

What might be a thing to consider is patio screen frames. I just stapled my screen to the wood. You can buy that plastic frame from home depot, nail it to the wooden posts, and run the screen right into it, them clamp it down. IF they work with aluminum screen...