Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a rather embarassing thing to ask. I finally, after almost a year of research and soul searching, got a pair of spotted pythons. So far they are healthy, active, and have a feeding response that's just increadible. The feeding response I think may be a litte too good. I had been leaving them alone to allow them to adapt to their environment and destress. However this last week I've been trying to handle them and every time I take the female (about 2ft) out, I get bit, she seems to think my fingers are lunch. Now I'm almost afraid to touch her, as ridiculous as that is. Last night I went to handle her (and got bit) and my hands were shaking like leaves. Logically I KNOW it doesn't hurt, but.

What I need to know is this, how can I handle her and convince my brain that it's ok. I don't know if wearing gloves is the best way to do this? I'm sure she was never handled except for feeding and that this is what's leading to her bites, she's looking for dinner. I'm embarrassed enough to say I even considered maybe I made a mistake getting them, but I really do want them, just a lot tamer... I also have kids who would not be as calm as I if this happened to them. So... now that I've been long-winded, can anyone give me some ideas of how I can tame them down and avoid any more rings of puncture marks on my fingers? I sure would hate to see this happen when she's bigger!!

Thank you, KC

First of all, it isn't necessarily a feeding response that is causing your python to bite. It is more likely that your snakes are biting as a defense mechanism because they are not used to being handled. Are they attempting to constrict? If so, you need to condition your snakes that your hands are not food. If not, you need to teach them that no harm will come to them when you handle them. I have a Jungle Carpet Python, a snake know to be nippy as a youngster. When I first got her, she would bite everything in sight, as a matter of course. This makes sense. In the wild, baby snakes strike at food, constrict and eat it. Anything else is likely to be a predator, so they bite it to try and drive it away. Eventually, they learn what is a threat and what isn't and they stop biting non-threats. I'd be willing to bet this will happen with your snakes as well. Get the used to being handled and to the smell of you in non-feeding situations as much as possible. On the other hand, try not to let them associate you with food (wash hands, don't handle them for a day or two before and after feeding, etc.) Do wear gloves if you need to. Even though the bites aren't harmful, it gets annoying to bleed all over the place every time you handle your snake. I would advise you to be the only handler until they have calmed completely, as you will get used to their mannerisms. I would give the process some time. My Jungle took three or four months to calm, but once she did, she hasn't even threatened to bite since. It will take a while, but it should work out if you are patient. Good luck.

uhm, yes she is trying to constrict when she grabs me. It's obvious they think it's food time by how immediately active they become when I open the cage. It's just really disturbing how shaky I get with them... I do know they're looking for food, and that I HAVE to handle them to get them over it, but... Thanks though.

KC

If they are going into feeding mode whenever you open the cage, then you should make a point of opening the cage repeatedly and NOT feeding them. I'd open it every time I walked by. I don't know what kind of cage you are using, but if you have a cage that you built yourself, consider cutting a "food door" into it and delivering the food that way (without opening the cage at all). It seems like your snakes are eager to eat, so just dump it in the food door and let them have at it. On another note, you probably want to seperate them for feeding (and possibly all the time) so there aren't any battles over food. Another idea is to feed them at off-hours (when you wouldn't normally handle them). If you never handle them in the morning, for example, you could try feeding them as soon as you got up. Snakes adapt, but they aren't very "intelligent" in a cognitive way. I'm confident you'll outsmart them in the long run.

My Macklot's were the same way... But, it only took them a couple of weeks before they were no longer trying to bite (at least, not very often...). Now, they're still a little nippy when something moves past, but, I can reach into the terrarium and pick them up, as long as I move slowly and smoothly...

I keep the flat of my palm facing them, though, so that, even if the *do* decide to lunge, they can't really get into anything...
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Justin, Julie and the menagerie...
(Bobbing igs, snapping macklots, exploring ball, hungry kings, hyper grey rat, quacking tribs, hissing roaches, wriggling worms & chirping crickets)
Vermont Herpetological Society Online
www.vermontherps.org

Try putting your hand in with the idea that you _want_ her to bite you. Deliberately try to provoke a bite. Once she does it once or twice I think you'll figure out there isn't anything to fear.

It won't help with your fear, but removing them from the cage with a hook, or at least using the hook to manuver them so you can grab their body without shoving your hand right into their faces would probably solve a lot of the biting issues. I have some snakes that are very defensive in their cage but are very nice once their out of it. And some people say snakes learn that they're not getting fed when they see the hook so they won't try to eat you .

To avoid the strike as soon as you reach into the cage, you could use a hook to get some distance between the snake and your hand. I find it kind of like using a bridge shooting pool, a little awkward. With little snakes though, I prefer to just obstruct their view of my hand reaching for them. A paper towel held vertically between the snakes head and your hand while you lift the body usually works. All of my snakes- even the less clever ones- have figured out that paper towels are not edible. If she doesn't settle down and stop trying to eat you once she's out, I'd use gloves. Thin, smooth leather vs cloth or suede (so little teeth don't catch and get pulled out). Don't worry about the hand shaking thing. Even though it doesn't hurt, the startling effect is still there and it's pretty natural to get nervous thinking you're going to get bit. I think after a while you just get used to the idea and the fear response goes away.
BTW- I've been catching snakes for 18 years and I still get a little nervous grabbing wild snakes. Doesn't stop me though .
Lora

Thanks for that, I appreciate it. I guess somehow I missed putting in that I have been using a hook to take them out, and that I never feed them together.

She actually bites AFTER i've taken her out and have her in hand... she'll move around, toungue going like mad, until she gets her head near my fingers and then *whap* she lets go.. and I do try to hold on to her for a little while longer, but then the irrational shaking really starts and I have to put her back before I scare her too. That's the main reason why I've been shaking, I KNOW what she's going to do, no ifs ands or buts.

I think that I'll go find me a good pair of gloves and try the open the cage everytime i'm in the room advice, at least then only the gloves'll get bit... and maybe knowing that'll help these stupid shakes... that in itself makes me feel rather ridiculous.

So, Thanks all, i appreciate it.

KC

That being, the ability to take bites in stride and as part of the "job". I get in close and personal when feeding and or doing anything else, so I get bitten all the time. Just yesterday I got it on the forearm by a 7 foot gravid female dumerils boa. I wasn't expecting it, and it hurt very much, but these occasional bites are something that I am used to nonetheless. I had been holding her while my wife changed her newspaper. Suddenly she seixed the meat of my forearm and wrapped my entire arm. This is very much out of character for her or any other dum, so I figure that she has an increased appetite due to pregnacy and this led to being taken as food. It hurt very much, but I had my wife go get the digital camera so i could take pictures. All too often I am telling someone about the bite later and I regret not having taken a picture to document it. So I took a few at different angles (this hurt even more, as I had to twist my arm or move it about and this made her squeeze harder and pull at her head more)

I started keeping reptiles when I was about 8 years old and I got used to being bitten very early on. It started with impressing my friends, I think, and progressed to a level of acceptance and indifference as my collection increased, as did the size of my snakes, and the frequency and severity of my bites gradually increased. I was first grabbed and constricted by a 12 foot burmese when I was about 12. Fortunately she had just gotten my hand and squeezed my arm. She had eventually let go, I'd given her her rabbit and as a result of the whole incident my respect for big snakes had deepened, but my fear of bites had decreased.

So I suppose in short, what I am trying to say, is if you fear being bitten you should avoid it and wear gloves like the other poster suggested. If you feel you can learn to take the bites in stride then try to learn to accept them as part of the "job". I personally feel that it is pretty hard to keep reptiles any length of time and to not be bitten.

>>I have a rather embarassing thing to ask. I finally, after almost a year of research and soul searching, got a pair of spotted pythons. So far they are healthy, active, and have a feeding response that's just increadible. The feeding response I think may be a litte too good. I had been leaving them alone to allow them to adapt to their environment and destress. However this last week I've been trying to handle them and every time I take the female (about 2ft) out, I get bit, she seems to think my fingers are lunch. Now I'm almost afraid to touch her, as ridiculous as that is. Last night I went to handle her (and got bit) and my hands were shaking like leaves. Logically I KNOW it doesn't hurt, but.
>>
>>What I need to know is this, how can I handle her and convince my brain that it's ok. I don't know if wearing gloves is the best way to do this? I'm sure she was never handled except for feeding and that this is what's leading to her bites, she's looking for dinner. I'm embarrassed enough to say I even considered maybe I made a mistake getting them, but I really do want them, just a lot tamer... I also have kids who would not be as calm as I if this happened to them. So... now that I've been long-winded, can anyone give me some ideas of how I can tame them down and avoid any more rings of puncture marks on my fingers? I sure would hate to see this happen when she's bigger!!
>>
>>Thank you, KC
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

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You bet. Just give me a little time. I first have to find it, and get it hosted in the gallery, and etc. But I should have it up soon. (couple hours)
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

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I have never used it before and don't know how to take a url link from there to here. But you can go look at the picture in the photo gallery. It is a fresh post and under BrianSmithHerps Let me know what you think.
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

wow thats a hell of a bite, how did you end up getting him/her off of you?

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I get bitten pretty frequently. Sometimes weekly. If they don't let go on their own in the first few seconds (burmese are pretty good about this) then you simply unwind them tail first. They hate to be moved and taken off of their prey item (usually). Before they are completely unwound they usually always let go. Worst case scenario you just force their mouth open and remove them. Some say to use alcohol (drinking kind) others say hot water,.. but I have never had to use either. Not knocking those methods either. Whatever works, you know.

>>wow thats a hell of a bite, how did you end up getting him/her off of you?
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

Brian,

I have to say, I was a little disappointed in your response, especially having spent a lot of time reading your posts in the burm forums etc. I had hoped that you would respond as you seem to know so much about these animals, but I was hoping for a little actual advice in how to work with my animals to get them to a level where we are all happy.

I was well aware that being bitten would be part an parcel of owning these animals, it's why I was embarrased at my physiological response to it. Instead I feel (whether you meant it like that or not, just to avoid the flame) that I got a long post, bragging about how many times you've been bitten. Interesting, but not what I needed, and as to whether or not I have "it" or not, time will tell. Frankly, I would not have gotten them if I thought I didn't.

KC

Agreed, Brian got a bit sidetracked there, but I don't think he meant offense. That's not why I'm writing, though, I have a tip that works with colubrids, might on pythons. First let me say, I have kept snakes as long as I can remember and I get the bite shakes, too. Nothing to be embarrased about (well, unless it's a hatchling corn or something Snakes HATE the taste of latex gloves. Try those and also rubbing alcohol (on a cotton ball for them to smell NOT poured on their heads) will make them let go fast, too. I use Isagel, availible thru Beanfarm, for a hand sanatizer and it seems to act much in the same way IF you just put it on. Once it's been on your hands for a while, they start to smell like food again. I have a female woma with the same issue. Anything in her cage must be food, and she'll rub her snout on you getting ready for that "test bite", which you have to watch for. Honestly, I only handle her when I have to and keep a close eye on her the whole time.

I didn't mean anything by it. Nor was I intending to brag about being bitten. My wife doesn't "have it" either and as a result is very apprehensive about many of the more unpredictable snakes. I don't judge her or chastise her for this. But as we keep mostly large species I do try to hammer into her head the importance of coping with being bitten. Because there is no doubt in my mind that there will be many more bites in the future. Her only good bite to date was from a relatively small male tiger that had a temporary feeding response and got her elbow for 5 seconds. It was a sloppy bite and he only got 4 or 5 teeth in at an extreme angle, but she really freaked out. He was only about 7 feet at the time too. But I really want her to get used to the idea that we will be bitten, otherwise her fear is a danger to us both. Do you see what I mean? But no, I was not trying to offend you in my post. I'm sorry you took it that way. Other than building a trust with your snakes and showing them that you don't pose a threat to them, I don't really know what else to suggest along the lines of working with your snakes to avoid being bitten.

Sorry again about the miscommunication.

>>Brian,
>>
>> I have to say, I was a little disappointed in your response, especially having spent a lot of time reading your posts in the burm forums etc. I had hoped that you would respond as you seem to know so much about these animals, but I was hoping for a little actual advice in how to work with my animals to get them to a level where we are all happy.
>>
>> I was well aware that being bitten would be part an parcel of owning these animals, it's why I was embarrased at my physiological response to it. Instead I feel (whether you meant it like that or not, just to avoid the flame) that I got a long post, bragging about how many times you've been bitten. Interesting, but not what I needed, and as to whether or not I have "it" or not, time will tell. Frankly, I would not have gotten them if I thought I didn't.
>>
>>KC
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It isn't "Ideas" that fail or succeed,... it is the "Systems" which are instilled to launch and sustain the idea that either fail or succeed.>[Me.]

's ok Brian, happens to all of us... written language is often very difficult when it comes to tone of voice. Makes being a writer such a joy (sarcasm there!) But thanks all the same, I'll get over it I'm sure with a few of the earlier tips and time.

KC

kc,
I keep childrens pythons (a bit smaller version of your spotteds).Two of my three went through biting phases as sub-adults.
What has worked for me is a small towel. Dropping the towel over the snake's head prior to picking it up seemed to calm it. Also, a pair of golf gloves for you might make it a bit more difficult to draw blood while not injuring the animal when it does bite.
As a note, both childrens and spotteds are active pythons and won't just coil around your arm and hang out. They like to move while you hold them. As you handle them consistently you will develop a "rhythm" for allowing them freedom within limits. And you will recognize when the bite is coming and become better at deflecting it.
My adult female was vicious for the longest time. With handling and maturity, she has become a delightful snake to interact with. My sub-adult female however, still coils and strikes whenever anyone even thinks about walking past her cage. Still I handle her frequently and have faith.
You owe it to yourself to keep trying--you wanted them for a long time. Having kept snakes for awhile, I've found that I learn the most from the snappy ones. And the feeling you get when they finally calm down is very satisfying. The best to you and the pythons.
Regards,
althea