Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm going to be building some cages for my bearded dragons, and i have a few questions about lights in the cage. Right now i have clamp lamps and flourescents hoods for their lights. What i want to know is, am i going to need to buy all new light fixtures for the insides of the new cages. The cages are going to be 4x2x2 melamine board. Is there a clever way to use the clamp lamps I have and/or the flourescent hoods? Or do i need to just buy ceramic fixtures for my incadescents, and hardwire fluorescent fixtures? I was thinking of "gutting" the flourescent fixtures atleast, and maybe hot glue/epoxy the ballist ends. The way the hoods are designed the large ugly brown "shield" hold the ends in place. Has anyone tried this, or any other suggestions, or should i just bite the bullet and buy all new everything?

Thanks for any replies
Jeremy

What i want to know is, am i going to need to buy all new light fixtures for the insides of the new cages. The cages are going to be 4x2x2 melamine board.

I would at least consider switching to mercury vapor bulbs (MVB's). Either the self or externally ballasted types. I believe their higher UVA output as well as their higher total light output is better for bearded dragons.

48" fluorescents would be my seond choice. 48" gives you more bulb options and more light intensity at the same or lesser price. More on that later.

Before I forget, let me mention something about this. Melamine sheet is 1" overlength and width. So it's actually 49"x97".

Take advantage of this and build your cages in a way that a 48" light fixture can comfortably fit inside. These are typically a hair over 48". With melamine it will be more than easy enough for the lights to fit if your plan correctly.

Even if you do go with MVB's it will be nice to have the option of switching back to 48" fluorescents. Maybe MVBs will become illegal (possible) or a much better fluorescent product will come out. Go ahead and leave yourself that option, no matter how unlikely.

Is there a clever way to use the clamp lamps I have and/or the flourescent hoods?

If by "clever" you mean a way to hide them, then no. They will be more bulky that ways of mounting lights to your cage ceiling.

A galvanized metal electric box, porcelain fixture, and a bit of scrap electric cord is cheap and easy to hide behind the top lip of your cage.

Or do i need to just buy ceramic fixtures for my incadescents, and hardwire fluorescent fixtures?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Maybe Bighurt or MarkG will answer that. They know their stuff about this.

I was thinking of "gutting" the flourescent fixtures atleast, and maybe hot glue/epoxy the ballist ends.

I have known a few people who mounted the guts of a fluorescent fixture directly to the inside of a cage. They all regreted it. Is that what you meant by "hardwired".

I would start from scratch regardless of whether you go with MVB's or 48" fluorescents.

If you do go with fluorescents, I recommend pulling the ballast and rewiring with a t-12 ballast. This will increase light intensity, reduce humming (or so I've heard), and increase total UV.

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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Thanks Chris,

By hardwiring i meant using fixtures meant for "permanent" applications where they are wired direct to the power, no plug in, and just using a cut up extension cord as you've suggested to others. And yes i was trying to say, but just didn't know the words, gutting the hoods i have and mounting them. So i geuss it's all fresh materials for me then. I'm not worried about the money really i just don't want to waste it if not needed. I would rather have something done right than cheap. Not that money isn't a concern of course, poor college guy here .

The other "question" i have, more of a statement i geuss, is i was planning on using a cam bolt type system for the building of the cage like used in office furniture, i.e. where you turn the little round cam which tightens the bolt, instead of screws. Has anyone, or chris have you ever tried this method? Looking around for the parts needed it seems it would be expensive wih the cams, so unless i can find a cheap supplier of the parts needed i was going to go with a hammer in "nut" not too sure what to call it, that will have a bolt form the other piece of wood tighten into it. The "nut" itself has little ridges flaring out meant to secure in the wood with threads inside. Does any of this make sense to anyone or sound familiar. I'm thinking this way because I'm a college student and moving is inevitable, and if the cage is easily tore down and moved the happier i am. I jsut figured if i went with screws i would have an issue of eventually "stripping out/or gutting" the screw holes, no longer creating a tight seal. I would seal the edges with a silicon more than likely, not a big deal to remove if i need to disassemble.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, just gone done today with my last final for the semester yeah me

Thanks Chris for previous reply, as well as any others that may come
Jeremy

Actually that's an intriguing idea to use the connecting fittings (like they use in Ikea furniture as an example) and is one i had also thought of trying. The only problem is that it might prove to be much more difficult in practice to do unless you're properly set up to do this.

I knew that myself i didn't have the equipment easily accessible to me to properly drill out and align everything, nor the experience with them to be comfortable trying, but if you do and have the ability then it might be a good option.

I don't know where you live but you should be able to buy the cams through a German-based hardware company called Hettich. They supply hardware up here in Canada and also have Hettich America down in the U.S.
The company i work for uses Hettich as our hardware line so i know a little about them, but i'm not the "hardware guy" so my knowledge on the line isn't what i'd consider complete lol.

In fact here's a link to what you're looking for, hope this helps:
Hettich America - Connecting Fittings

First, congrats on finishing the semester. Always feels good, doesn't it? I'm probably going back to school for a masters so I'll get to experience that again.

The problem with going without a hood is that they do contribute to directing light downwards. You can actually get higher UVB readings with the hood.

I don't see any advantage to hardwiring everything unless that meant you would have just one plug for the cage. Even that seems impractical as you may want some light sources to turn off at night and heat sources to stay on. But maybe I'm not getting something.

My only issue with those cam bolts is that they won't by themselves prevent water or slight moisture from getting into the melamine and causing it to swell and crack.

But that does not mean don't use them, just still silicone the interior edges. It means a lot of scraping every time you take the cage apart, however.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

>>I don't see any advantage to hardwiring everything unless that meant you would have just one plug for the cage. Even that seems impractical as you may want some light sources to turn off at night and heat sources to stay on. But maybe I'm not getting something.

I hardwire everything within the cages not to the facility but within each cages electrical sub system. My facility is wired with 3 wire so basically each cage stack has 2 plugs one constant and one is on a timer. I used to wire my cages so that each cage plugs into each other but that was a nightmare. Currently they are all wired to a panel under each cage that has switches, rotor dimmers, or thermostats. That is a nicer setup allows for more stringent control of the internal systems.
>>
>>My only issue with those cam bolts is that they won't by themselves prevent water or slight moisture from getting into the melamine and causing it to swell and crack.

If you can get those cams to work have at it for me they are to expensive and not worth in my eyes. I think the other nut you were planning on beating in is what they call a tee nut and I don't think that would work well at all. The easiest way would be to use screws from the outside they can be removable and if you have skills you can make those little plugs to cover the screw heads. Personnally I used to do that but to me it wasn't worth it to much time. Now I dado my joints, glue, and brad nail everything. With the interior siliconed it really dosn't effect the abilty to take the cage apart.
>>
>>But that does not mean don't use them, just still silicone the interior edges. It means a lot of scraping every time you take the cage apart, however.

Clean up is always a mess!
Jeremy
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

>>The easiest way would be to use screws from the outside they can be removable and if you have skills you can make those little plugs to cover the screw heads.

I believe those screws made specifically for particle board are strong enough that they can be taken out and still hold the cage together upon reassemble. That's not the recommend use, but I understand it works. The limiting factor would be how long the particle board interior would hold up.

I think the most common brand name is Confirmat? My understanding is that they make an exceptionally strong edge joint in particle board. Video game carcass' are held together with nothing but edge-joints & Confirmat-style screws and still hold together quite well as they are shipped all over the place. From my understanding the video arcade industry has researched this pretty extensively given the abuse arcade games take.

The difference being is that they are not designed to be taken apart, so I don't know if that is helpful information or not.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Thanks everyone for their input. I'm going to test each of the connector devices out, and see if they are going to be worth the extra work. I'm going to make a little test box with each and see how i like them and how strong they are. Thanks For that website for those cams too.

I'll post what i've found along with some pics of each of the assemblies for those that are interested. I know that breaking down these and scraping is going to be a pain in the butt each time i try it. But i'd rather do that than carry a huge freaking cage up multiple flights of stairs if that's where i end up by chance.

Plus i haven't seen or heard many people going this way and i thought i would give it a try.

Thanks again for all the info
I'll keep everyone updated.

And to clear this up possibly chris. Some fluorescent fixtures already have a cord with a plug on them generally in some sort of enclosure like the aquarium hoods, while others need to be "hardwired" meaning wired directly into the house wiring and are sort of bare. Maybe i'm using "hardwired" wrong here? Does this make sense? Maybe i'm still describing it wrong, but atleast i tried .

The fluorescent fixtures that can be wired directly to the homes wiring (i.e. not plugged in) are actually pretty nice. They often come with t12 ballasts, for example.

But most people who used them for herps simply wire them to be plugged into the wall.

No reason to hardwire it unless 1) the cage is permanent, or 2) you live in a country where you could run it off of 220V.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Hey no prob. Hope it works out for you, and looking forward to hopefully seeing some pictures of your mock-ups. My thinking is more in line with what Chris was mentioning too, i'd think scraping silicone would be more trouble than it's worth if you're going to be moving a fair bit but that's just me.
Still quite an interesting idea you're attempting. Best of luck.