Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have two small leopards (about 4 inches) that I keep indoors most of the time.

Do you recommend a humid hide for this species when indoors? I've seen some authors mention that leopards are very sensitive to high humidity, so I didn't know if they could tolerate a humid hide. Also they have been reluctant to enter a fully enclosed hide in the past. They seem to prefer a shallow, open hide like a half flower pot.

Otherwise I soak them twice a week and during warm weather they spend a few hours a week outdoors (on grass) in the high humidity of Missouri. I keep them on a newspaper substrate (they are such prodigious poopers).

Thanks.

I think that a humid hide is beneficial for most if not all torts (including leo's, espically small ones!) Its much easier to allow the tort to choose where it wants to be (humid spot or not) and certanly helps control the possibility of dehydration...

-ian

I've been preaching this for years. I agree with Ian in that I believe all tortoises can benefit from a humid hide or humid area.

I'm raising some leopards in a shoebox with no UV and 80% of their diet Mazuri. I soak them every 2 or 3 days and when I do moisten half the area of their box during their soaking period.

The substrate is pine bark mulch but I'm going to be changing that to sand. I wanted really high humidity for the first year.

They are also kept in the incubator at a constant temperature of 86 F.

On a last note, if you don't see any pyramiding, don't change a thing.

Ed

>I have two small leopards (about 4 inches) that I keep indoors most of the time.
>>
>>Do you recommend a humid hide for this species when indoors? I've seen some authors mention that leopards are very sensitive to high humidity, so I didn't know if they could tolerate a humid hide. Also they have been reluctant to enter a fully enclosed hide in the past. They seem to prefer a shallow, open hide like a half flower pot.
>>
>>Otherwise I soak them twice a week and during warm weather they spend a few hours a week outdoors (on grass) in the high humidity of Missouri. I keep them on a newspaper substrate (they are such prodigious poopers).
>>
>>Thanks.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

EJ,
I've heard when kept that way the growth is all white. Then some people sell them as high white/blonde etc. What have your experiences been. Any pictures?
Thanks,
Chad

I have some experience with leopards here in south Florida. I raised my two females from small juveniles outdoors with access to full sunlight. They became very nice adults with normal (wild caught) appearing carapaces.
Back in the early 80s I got on breeding loan, two young adult males that had been raised in Virginia and that had spent most of their lives in a basement with artifical lights. They were very pale and what most people would refer to as 'blond' these days. However, after they became established at my home and out in full sun, all of their new growth came in as black. Also, the older growth on the carapace became much darker after many months in the sun. After a few years, they looked like completely different animals.

Also, I have a friend in Gainesville, Florida who purchased a couple of so called 'blond' juvenile leopards a few years back. They were very pale and blond in appearance when he got them, but they changed dramatically when he put them in his outdoor pen. Now, they are exceptionally dark (= black) sub-adults with little light coloring at all.
In my opinion most, if not all, of the 'blond' leopard tortoises offered for sale are simply animals that have been raised indoors or without access to full sunlight.
Think about it, have you ever seen, or even heard of a wild caught 'blond' leopard tortoise? I sure haven't and I have been looking at imported tortoises for almost 35 years.

Many of the tortoises that were imported in the last 10 years that came from the northern part of their range (Somolia and surrounding countries) were very light in color and could be considered blonde. The one I'm raising outdoors is an offspring of a pair of these animals.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the 3 in a shoebox at 80 F are almost all black.

As the years go by I seem to find more questions than answers.

>>
>>
>> I have some experience with leopards here in south Florida. I raised my two females from small juveniles outdoors with access to full sunlight. They became very nice adults with normal (wild caught) appearing carapaces.
>> Back in the early 80s I got on breeding loan, two young adult males that had been raised in Virginia and that had spent most of their lives in a basement with artifical lights. They were very pale and what most people would refer to as 'blond' these days. However, after they became established at my home and out in full sun, all of their new growth came in as black. Also, the older growth on the carapace became much darker after many months in the sun. After a few years, they looked like completely different animals.
>>
>> Also, I have a friend in Gainesville, Florida who purchased a couple of so called 'blond' juvenile leopards a few years back. They were very pale and blond in appearance when he got them, but they changed dramatically when he put them in his outdoor pen. Now, they are exceptionally dark (= black) sub-adults with little light coloring at all.
>> In my opinion most, if not all, of the 'blond' leopard tortoises offered for sale are simply animals that have been raised indoors or without access to full sunlight.
>>Think about it, have you ever seen, or even heard of a wild caught 'blond' leopard tortoise? I sure haven't and I have been looking at imported tortoises for almost 35 years.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I know that there are lighter and darker pigmented leopard tortoises and many are much lighter than others.
But the animals that I think you are talking about have fairly 'normal' pattern. Some seem to have finer speckling on the carapace rather than heavy black blotches, but the appearance is pretty normal.
What I am talking about are the leopard tortoises that you often see for sale that have ALMOST NO BLACK PIGMENT and in fact, do not even have a normal looking pattern at all. They are sometimes mostly white or cream colored with very little of the normal brown and black smudges and blocks of pigment that a wild caught leopard tortoise has. Some will have thick bands of new growth that are solid ivory in color.
Then again, there are some leopards that may have typical pattern but that are ridiculously pale and faded in their overall appearance. These too I think are a result of simply not being exposed to full sunlight.
You are right though that some W/C imports are much lighter than others and could be called 'blond'...but I meant that you never see extreme examples like the captive ones that are offered for sale.

True Blonde Leopard Tortoises are bred for pattern and color. My Blonde Leopard Tortoises are maintained 5 months of the year outside. They arre inside 7 months of the year. No difference in coloration or pattern has ever occurred based on the exposure to or lack of exposure to natural or artificial sunlight.

True Blonde Leopard Tortoises have a distinctive reverse pattern, where normally black is found between the scutes there is cream or white colored shell. As the animal grows the black blotchy markings will change with time (Oncogenisis)and either retreat from the blond areas or encroach upon it, however, the pattern always remains distintive from wild caught or even normal captive bred patterned leopards.

I breed for this pattern and color. Not all offspring have the pattern and color I want but based on genetics I can produce at least 50% that exhibit the unique pattern and color of true blonde leopard tortoises.

I used to be a firm believer that was the case and it is to an extent but the 3 I'm raising in a shoebox are very dark and I've got one outdoors that is very white... go figure.

>>EJ,
>> I've heard when kept that way the growth is all white. Then some people sell them as high white/blonde etc. What have your experiences been. Any pictures?
>>Thanks,
>>Chad
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care