Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've had my 3 1/2 foot long Burm for a little over a year and a half now, and i think it's time for a new cage set up. Currently, i find the cage boring: Bark substrate, and a large branch (almost L shape) in the basking spot...and of course a water bowl.

Substrate?
I have been reading some forums and mentioned that astro turf would be a nice substrate, and the rubber mats you see in bars. Would this be a wise choice? I heard that astro turf might cause friction burns, or does that apply to fast moving lizards?

Hide Box?:
Then comes the question of a hide box. Do i really need one? My Burm has beeen fine without one for a whole year, and when i did put one in there, he never went inside it.

Heating?
Then how about heating? I've used a 75watt bulb and my hot areas get around 80-90 degrees. I also heard about heat pads (not ROCKS), and wondered if i should use that instead? Im' not very comfotable about a cord coming out of my cage, as my Burm might exploit a way out.

"Toys?"
I'm also thinking of including a plastic soft bush in a corner of my cage, so my Burm can go in and out of it, and hopefully help him find a good place to shed due to my Burms last failed shed attempts. Would you guys recommend sticks to climb over? Or are burms more grounded?

I really think a new cage would be nice for my snake and myself. I have an idea of what i'm going to do, but do you think you guys can post an example pic of your cage set up so i can draw some ideas from it? Thanks for reading my long post =)

That's a pretty small burm for one year of age; what kind of feeding schedule is it on?....but, then again, perhaps it a smaller morph so count your blessings. I personally don't like astro turf as I have found that it can cause irritations to the belly scales of snakes; various bark (except cedar) substrates, or, a soil/sand/forest humus substrate with lots of dried leaves on the surface looks real nice (we are currently trying this in our burm exhibit). Aspen bedding is a generally acceptable alternative although I have found that some snakes are very sensitive to the dust caused by the wood. Newspaper is still the absolute best substrate hands down.

You really can't get too fancy with a cage set up for burms as they tend to rearrange any landscapes in their "digs". Many burms do perfectly fine w/out hide areas as long as they can find a dark area of the cage to coil up near (even an open topped kitty litter pan can provide a nice shelter but still allow viewing). Sounds like what you have is plenty.

As far as temps go, you can use a regular incadescent bulb but it will need to stay on continually in order to provie proper heat gradients 24 hours a day. An even better alternative is Pro Products Radiant Heat Panels. They are mounted to the inside roof of the cage and are incredibly good ways to provide heat to large snakes.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>I've had my 3 1/2 foot long Burm for a little over a year and a half now, and i think it's time for a new cage set up. Currently, i find the cage boring: Bark substrate, and a large branch (almost L shape) in the basking spot...and of course a water bowl.
>>
>>Substrate?
>>I have been reading some forums and mentioned that astro turf would be a nice substrate, and the rubber mats you see in bars. Would this be a wise choice? I heard that astro turf might cause friction burns, or does that apply to fast moving lizards?
>>
>>Hide Box?:
>>Then comes the question of a hide box. Do i really need one? My Burm has beeen fine without one for a whole year, and when i did put one in there, he never went inside it.
>>
>>Heating?
>>Then how about heating? I've used a 75watt bulb and my hot areas get around 80-90 degrees. I also heard about heat pads (not ROCKS), and wondered if i should use that instead? Im' not very comfotable about a cord coming out of my cage, as my Burm might exploit a way out.
>>
>>"Toys?"
>>I'm also thinking of including a plastic soft bush in a corner of my cage, so my Burm can go in and out of it, and hopefully help him find a good place to shed due to my Burms last failed shed attempts. Would you guys recommend sticks to climb over? Or are burms more grounded?
>>
>>
>>I really think a new cage would be nice for my snake and myself. I have an idea of what i'm going to do, but do you think you guys can post an example pic of your cage set up so i can draw some ideas from it? Thanks for reading my long post =)
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I think i'm kinda confused over the issue of the radiat heat pads. You said they mount on the roof of the cage? So this will create adequate heat for both day and night? I'm basing all my observations on this pic:

http://www.herpshop.com.au/pictures/hs_PetZoneHeatPad.jpg
I think i might've done that link wrong though.

I think why my Burm is that size is i keep my Burm on somewhat on a leaner diet. I feed my Burm about twice a month on the largest mice the store has. So far, my Burm is still very very active, "squishy" as my sister calls it, and doesn't seem to have any problems except shedding which i will try and correct with more mistings.

I agree with Mr Carmichael...your burm is a bit undersized for a year. You should begin to feed a bit more. Perhaps this "leaner" diet could be one of the causes of your shedding problems?
Anyway...the pad you show in your link is placed under then enclosure, heating an area at the bottom of the cage and the substrate.
A Radiant Heat Panel heats the air that passes under it. It attaches to the ceiling of the enclosure.Realize that this is a very simple explanation.
But by heating the air that passes under it, it heats the entire enclosure with a nearly perfect temp gradient.
Also, warm air holds moisture better, so your frequent mistings do more to raise humidity. (Back to the shedding problem again)
The RHPs are pricier, but I am more than happy with the results I get. I attached them to thermostats, and forget about them.
I do check my temps with temp guns.My gradients are something like this...
Rt side of cage, 86F, middle to Rt side beneath panel, 95F, left side ( cool side ) 83F. The burms use the entire enclosure, and each part of the gradient. Moving many times daily.I keep a bowl of water in the cages nowheres near big enough for a burm to fit into. It's for drinking and humidity.
I mist once a week at best, and get humidity levels of about 70-80%.
Substate is cypress mulch.Hides for my burms were a waste of money and floor space. Any cage "furniture" is also a waste, as a burm will plow through anything.Maybe something solid like a log, or large rock, secured to the cage to help shed the skin.
But anything other than that is too much.
I dont like astroturf...fake looking, holds smells and bacteria if not maintained, and gets blood stains.
If not cypress, then I concur with newspaper for substrate.
Hope this helps...and please, consider feeding your burm a bit more food.
3ft at one year is undersized. As are mice for food. Small to med rats would be better.My experience with burms ( mine are males), is that my year old boys were around 5-6ft, and always hungry.

How can i tell if my Burm is really underfed? I didn't think the burm would grow THAT fast, but i guess i'll try a mouse every week then. I also tried the deal with the small rat. The first time i put a small rat in, my Burm was immediatly aggitated and agressive. I guess he feared the rat, so i switched back to mice.

Also about the cypress mulch. When you burm eats, does he get any of it in his mouth? I used wood shavings before, and i switched to bark since where ever my burm ate, he always got it in his mouth, and i had to help him get it out.

And about the radiant heat panels. While i read your post, i assumed you had more than one to get your readings? Or would just one be enough for my cage? And when you said it stuck to the ceiling of the cage, does it stick with an adhesive? My cage is one of those opening glass doors/ screen mesh cages, and i wondered how i would apply it to that type of cage. How were you able to solve the problems with the cords for it?

First off, you are feeding your Burmese Python half of what I feed my adult Nelson's Milk Snake.
Whether your snake gets agitated or not, it is time to forget mice, and switch to rats.
Within a year and a half for most of mine, they were feeding on rabbits. Mice just wont cut it for burms.
If he does'nt want to eat rats...dont feed him. Eventually hunger will motivate him. And use f/t!
The do grow that fast. Any snake that can reach lengths of 18ft or so will grow very fast. And become very heavy.
I have multiple RHPs for multiple cages. They attach to the ceiling with screws and nuts. And there is no plug on the cord. You drill a hole through the cage, run the wire through it, and attach the plug.All very easy.
I however cant visualize the type cage you have. But a glass ceiling is hard to drill through. However.In a short time, you will need a new cage for your burm anyway...Remember, the fast growing thing?
You dont need multiple panels. Call Pro Products, and talk to Bob. Tell him your needs, and he'll choose the proper size.

http://www.pro-products.com/
Hope this helps.

I went to my local pet store today and looked at their rats. THEY ARE HUGE!!!!! You sure my under 4 foot long burm can tackle that thing? But for now, would two mice be fine for a feeding day? I just cant' imagine my little burm engulfing that huge rat i saw.

i have a little under 4 ft alb. burm also and i feed it a medium rat

i feed my jungle carpet pythons each 2 mice and they are like 30 - 36" or so and alot smaller then the burm

but yes two mice are perfectly fine i when i feed multiple i feed them then wait like 5 mins or so till you can see the first mouse has gone down his tummy a good bit then just feed again thats how ive always done it and have had no problems

so if you think 2 mice would be appropiate then do it but your burm should be easily able to take a rat
-----
0.0.2 Morelia Spilota Cheyni - Jungle Carpet Pythons

I'm thinking that two mice for a year old burm is not enough.
Maybe a few each week? We are talking a snake with some serious growth, and to fuel that growth it needs food.
You cannot get small, or med rats anywhere? I would say two small rats per week for at least the next six months. The meds would be no problem at all.
Without seeing your snake, I cannot tell if it can tackle meds yet. But you would be suprised what can fit down the maw of a burm.
My milk snakes at 24" eat an adult mouse every seven days.
Your burm should weigh many times what a milk snake does...do you think one or two mice is enough?
With your burm around half the size of a normal yearling...I'd say not.
Are you feeding live?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/xxcolbYxx/100_0009.jpg

That was taken about a month ago. Sorry for such a dirty glass, and the glare from the flash doesn't help either. I immediately cleaned the cage after that pic was taken, and it's spotless now. I wish i could've put up a cleaner pic, but that's the only pic i have if i only knew where my dad's camera was.

I Feed my burm pre-killed mice. I put him in a bag and whack him hard against an edge. I wont touch the mouse, so i find this the easiest way to knock the mouse out. Now i'm going to try and find a small rat at my store. They only had those huge ones there, so maybe next time they'll have "smaller" rats. I'm still pessimistic about the last time i fed my burm a rat....

Feed him one small rat to begin with...if he eats it, then feed him two the next time.
I'm trying to figure out how you're going to keep a burmese python eating mice. Sooner or later you're going to have to convert to rats.
If he wont take rats right away...too bad. Let him starve.
Sooner or later he's gonna eat. In my personal experience, I have never seen a burm starve to death. My own have never passed up a meal.
By two years old, mice are snacks for a burm, and rats are kinda small too. My smallest burm is around 10ft, and eats 2, 2.5lb rabbits every ten days to two weeks. And is not overweight.Body girth is awesome,and he is very active.
Looking at the pic of your burm, the body girth seems kind of slender for one year. Maybe some other posters here can take a look and give their opinion.
I've no idea where you got the idea that a mouse every couple of weeks is ok for a burm, but a mouse a week is a woefully small meal for a year old burm.
You're underfeeding.
Period