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I hope this does not start another arguement, but I have to ask a question regarding the pairing of two codominant/incomplete traits such as jungle and hypo-melanistic.

Since it is assumed for the most part and sometimes expected that hypos will throw abberant babies with stripes, and other kinds of abberancies, how do you know which babies are jungles and which babies are only expressing the abberant traits associated with hypos? (ofcourse this really only applies to the salmon jungles because for the normals it would be rather obvious and easy to tell the difference between normals and jungles).

I only ask this question because there have been so many beautiful jungles produced this year using hypos and while looking through the pictures I see many things going on with pattern and color.

Once again not trying to start another dispute, just curious if anyone had thought about this, or had an answer or idea.

Congratulations again on the awesome litters thus far this season.

Bob

from looking at pics of normal and hypo jungle litters, I think you can just tell as soon as you look at them what the difference is.

how

to sell those babies you produced and buy one....from that point on...you will never question what a Jungle is......It really is that way. Once you see it in person...you know!!!!!!!!

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Edited on May 10, 2005 at 15:44:02 by phwyvern.

Thats why Pete Kahl sells "Possible Jungles" occasionally. If theres anyone that could always decipher the difference, I would think he could. Its obviously not always a white/black issue.

but almost all of the time it is very cut and dry. Like Giantkeeper said once you own one you'll never question it. From that you can easily look at people's 'jungle' animals on the classifieds and quickly write them off as simply abberrant animals and not true jungles, it may sound elitist but they are very cut and dry and they are that way even when they are in salmon form. All the best,

Justin

that occasionally it is not. (which is apparent because Pete sells possible jungles)

Without getting too far out there, you guys are basically saying you will know, sounds alot like religion/faith, (sorry if that offends anyone) yet nobody has given any definition of what is a jungle. This is perhaps why many people are so confused about the jungle issue. Now I understand and can see some color and pattern differences when comparing jungles to abberants, however without a set definition of what a jungle is how can you charge anywhere from $2500 to $6000 for a jungle that may or may not prove out. (Im not aware of what Kahl sells possible jungles) All Im saying is I am confused and am seeking definition or a list of traits that jungles have. Im sorry, but telling me that I have to buy one to know makes no sense to me. I have been staying away from purchasing a jungle for that very reason. Every other morph has some sort of concrete definition that positively identifies them as that morph, how come jungles do not, other than "they have to be from the sweden line" how the hell do all of you really know what line they come from. Just recently there was an add that stated that the jungle litter was a result of an unproven jungle bred with a nice pastel female. It also said that most of the babies were affected with the jungle gene-but yet we already know that some lines of pastels are also known to throw abberants. And besides, if jungle is codominant then how was the entire litter affected.....Super Jungle??? Probably not--

Sorry for the rant
Bob

are "Jungles".

True jungles come from the sweeden line. Just like true salmons come from Rich Ihles line. How do you know? Trace it back. If you cant trace it back then you dont know.

Here's a defenition for jungle: Varying abberancies with varying color traits. Theres enough variation that we cannot tie down a "It will always look like this" to the morph.

Another example of a varying pattern morph is arabesque, which is more consistant than jungles but theres still quite a bit of both pattern and color variation inbetween individuals. We cant say "arabesques will always have connecting saddles" because thats not always the case, there is variation between them (there are some with no saddles for instance).

Pete has possible jungles available right now.

np

He looks alot like a normal boa. However look at the head. I purchased him frome P.K. as a jungle, with paper work. He doesn't look like much but he was all I could afford at the time. The reason I went the inexpensive rout instead of waiting until the next season was I was told he had the potential to produce some killer boas. So to a certain extent I am going on faith. However, there are plenty of photos out there that show what a top of the line jungle can be to ease my mind. Just like hypos, you get some killer hypos all the way down to some not so killer hypos. Even with codominant traits selective breeding has a huge effect on the offspring.
Link

He looks alot like a normal boa. However look at the head. I purchased him frome P.K. as a jungle, with paper work. He doesn't look like much but he was all I could afford at the time. The reason I went the inexpensive rout instead of waiting until the next season was I was told he had the potential to produce some killer boas. So to a certain extent I am going on faith. However, there are plenty of photos out there that show what a top of the line jungle can be to ease my mind. Just like hypos, you get some killer hypos all the way down to some not so killer hypos. Even with codominant traits selective breeding has a huge effect on the offspring.

Obviously this one was a little more expensive because of the appearance. According to P.K. both of these boas have the potential of producing striped, average, and "clean" looking variances of this trait.

They look very JUNGLE. :0)

Very good looking snakes, not abberant but great anyway.
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