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New snake quarantine?

juliecox May 08, 2005 08:47 AM

Hello!
I bought a young butter corn yesterday (a dream realized!!) at a local reptile show. He's about five months old, so more stable than a hatchling. I have another young corn about the same size in a 29 gallon tank, and I would like to house them together. I was wondering if I needed to quarantine the new fellow, and for how long.

He seems very healthy, if agitated. He's very active, and hasn't seemed inclined to even hide in his box, he's so intent on checking out his little holding tank (a five-gallon clear plastic bucket with (small) holes drilled in the lid. Not fancy, but it's the best I could do once I realized I should quarantine him.) He drank water eagerly, and has defecated already. Everything was fine in that department.

I think he would settle down more in the big tank, since there are a lot of decorations he could explore and places to hide. How soon can I put the new guy in with his tankmate?

Thanks!
Julie

Replies (5)

draybar May 08, 2005 10:20 AM

Everyone makes their own decisions but I beleieve it is best to give this piece of advise, information or whatever you would like to call it.
It might give you another view of the situation.
>>
>>COHABITATION
>>I thought I would post MY OPINION
>>
>>I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
>>I know a lot of people keep multiple snakes together without problems and it can obviously be done without dangers to the snakes. I just feel that for new people in the hobby the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
>>When a person gets the experience and knowledge of their individual snakes and wants to try cohabitation that is up to them. They just need to be carefull and able to read the subtle signs of their snakes.
>>There can be definite drawbacks.
>>If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
>>It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
>>If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
>>If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem but by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
>>Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen, one snake could eat the other. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other.
>>Like I said, this doesn't happen often but it has happened and is a possibility.
>>Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female might get pregnant and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs properly and raise the babies. With babies comes the responsibility of caring for them until you can find them a home.
>>A lot of people rationalize by saying "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can easily be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
>>There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming eggbound. Although not common it is a possibility and can happen.
>>With multiple snakes in an enclosure you stand the chance of loosing all of them if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
>>One or both of the snakes could be stressed by the presence of the other. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and lead to other health problems as well.
>>People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
>>When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
>>Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
>>There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
>>
>>I have kept multiple snakes together without problems but have made a choice to keep them separate. There is NO clear argument on why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE clear arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
>>So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
>>If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, regurgitation or any kind of personality change. These could all be signs of stress.
>>You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so to allow the smell of they prey item to dissipate, before putting them back together.
>>My 2 cents
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

juliecox May 09, 2005 03:39 PM

That's nice, but it still doesn't answer the orginal question, which was about quarantine time.

While I appreciate your input, I do feel inclined to present the counterarguments. First of all, I've been keeping corns for six years; the little butter is the third snake. The big adult has a tank to himself. Second, I have every intention of feeding the co-habitating baby snakes in separate enclosures, so there is really no risk of them trying to eat each other in a mistaken prey strike. Third, these snakes are less than a foot long; they're not sexually mature, so they're not going to get pregnant. They weren't hibernated, either.

I've never had a snake regurgitate its food or have a stool problem. Their husbandry is very carefully monitored. They're my pets, not breeders, so they share my room and get daily attention. Should a problem present itself, I would of course immediately separate them.

On a slightly irritated note ... I'm not an idiot; I know that snakes don't have emotions like humans do and that they don't need company or like each other. I am aware that their attachment to me amounts to "Oh good here comes the warm tree that drops food." My reason for having them together is mostly for the convenience of saving space and equipment (one heating pad instead of two, one water dish instead of two, one large tank instead of two ... etc.)

I will, of course, separate them before they're sexually mature (probably next year) to prevent the female from becoming pregnant, at least until I intend to breed them.

Thank you for your input anyway; to a novice, it would've been invaluable.

Original Message:
>>I know a lot of people keep multiple snakes together without problems and it can obviously be done without dangers to the snakes. I just feel that for new people in the hobby the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
>>When a person gets the experience and knowledge of their individual snakes and wants to try cohabitation that is up to them. They just need to be carefull and able to read the subtle signs of their snakes.
>>There can be definite drawbacks.
>>If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
>>It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
>>If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
>>If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem but by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
>>Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen, one snake could eat the other. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other.
>>Like I said, this doesn't happen often but it has happened and is a possibility.
>>Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female might get pregnant and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs properly and raise the babies. With babies comes the responsibility of caring for them until you can find them a home.
>>A lot of people rationalize by saying "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can easily be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
>>There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming eggbound. Although not common it is a possibility and can happen.
>>With multiple snakes in an enclosure you stand the chance of loosing all of them if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
>>One or both of the snakes could be stressed by the presence of the other. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and lead to other health problems as well.
>>People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
>>When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
>>Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
>>There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
>>
>>I have kept multiple snakes together without problems but have made a choice to keep them separate. There is NO clear argument on why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE clear arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
>>So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
>>If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, regurgitation or any kind of personality change. These could all be signs of stress.
>>You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so to allow the smell of they prey item to dissipate, before putting them back together.
>>My 2 cents

lolaophidia May 09, 2005 05:30 PM

Minimum recommended quarantine is 3 months. 6 months is better. Taking a few fecal samples from both snakes to the vet before you introduce them can help resolve the issue of who's got what flora & fauna in their system. Be aware that some diseases like cryptosporidium can have an incubation period of over a year and symptoms may only show if an animal is stressed (i.e. cohabitation or breeding) or immunosupressed.

Response to your feeding separately plans, hatchling to juvenile corns are more likely to eat each other than adults, from what I've read (and the unfortunate photos). If one snake feeds and the other doesn't, the smell of prey on the fed snake may be enough to trigger a feeding response from the other, once back in the cage.

Also, many people have had success breeding corns that were not brumated.

Just a few things to keep in mind. I don't think anyone thinks you're an idiot for asking questions, and I'm sorry if you got that impression. It's the internet after all, and we only know what people explicitly say about themselves. We should all be asking questions since experience is something easily shared.

-----
Lora

Darin Chappell May 09, 2005 11:59 PM

Keeping two corns together that are less than a foot long is just asking for one to eat the other. It only happens rarely, but it does happen, and NOT merely from feeding responses due to mouse scent being on one or the other.

Anyone who suggests that it is a completely safe practice to house hatchlings together is not telling you the truth. They may be merely ignorant of the risks involved, or they may have an ulterior motive. Nevertheless, it is hazzardous to house two hatchling corns together, period.

Further, corns, being solitary animals, do not always do well with a cagemate. Stress is one of the greatest causes of illnesses in reptiles, and those keepers least qualified to recognize the symptoms of stress are those most likely to cause the stress in the first place, by utilizing husbandry practices that, while convenient, are not what is best for the snakes.

Quite frankly, there is no good reason to house two corns together outside of breeding, on a temporary basis. While many keep their corns with no ill affects...you have to ask yourself, are their really no problems at all? Or are the symptoms merely being missed by the keepers completely?
-----
Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

LdyPayne May 08, 2005 12:06 PM

Quarenteeing your snake is certainly the best way to do. Typically 3 months is the minimum quarentee time, time enough to make sure no diseases are incubating in the snake, that it's mite free, internal parasite free (three clean facals from a vet, once per month, is the way to tell). At least three months is what is recommended for lizards, I certainly don't see why it wouldn't work with snakes.

Draybar explained all the reasons to not keep snakes together, so no need for me to elaborate on that. You can make a nice home for your new snake in a 100 litre rubbermaid container with hides etc.

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