Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey I was wondering if any one had pics of adult anery FL kings, I just got one and can't wait till it's bigger and want to see what it will look like as an adult thanks
Wayne

Here's a nice female I obtained recently. She's a bit fatter now as I think (hope) she's gravid.
:Mark

that's a very nice snake. but i don't think it's "pure" BHB line Anerythristic Brooks, it looks lie it's from a "line cross" (i.e BHB X NE axanthic)

but i like it... it's nice n Blue!

~ZF

what's the BHB line axanthic? From what I understand, the "anery" florida kings are compatible with the axanthics, but were from the more dull penninsular integrage Florida kings. They tend to be darker overall, like Rainer's snake in the post below showing his comparison to the NE axanthic. There is however, the Lemke line of axanthics that is also compatible with the NE line. I don't really see how you can tell from that pic, that it could be a cross between a BHB and a NE. I sure can't and I've been breeding axanthics for almost 10 years. BHB has what he calls "Anerythristic Brooks kings" and "Anerythristic Florida Kings". Most of his breeder stock of "anery brooksi" came from me and Lloyd Lemke. I'm not sure where the other line came from, but they look much different than the Lemke line or the NE line.....very brown and white instead of blue. Can you tell what line this is from?

Brandon Osborne

Link to BHB kingsnakes.

I'm not 4 sure about my observation, and I have no proof, the original post asked for an anery Florida king, and the snake posted doesn't look like what I believed an anery brook's to look like, so I inferred it was maybe a line cross? or maybe that lemke line you're referring to or may be lemke X N E but not anery.

BTW: i sent you an email, did you get it?

~ZF

Anery and Axanthic are interchangable within this strain......at least in my opinion and the opinion of a few others. If they are not also anery, wouldn't snows and ghosts hatch out with red/orange???? It sure seems that way. Here's a pic of one of my HET "axanthics".

See all the RED/ORANGE?.....yet, it has no yellow, but isn't an axanthic.?.....and none of my axanthics have red either.?
Here's another......is it an axanthic?

No. Just another normal....with no yellow.

IMHO, I think Mark's snake pictured above is a nice axample of an axanthic brooksi/florida.....whatever you want to call it. Some call it a florida king and some call it a brooksi.....all the same.

To get a bit off topic here, I'll argue till the end of time on the axanthic vs. anery topic. Here's my question to some of the non-anery believers......Why is it that snows tend to develop yellow as they age, yet the Extreme Red lavenders come from double het snows......that produce snows with no red on them?????? I don't get it. Seems like there could be an anery gene in there to me. The answer may never be known. lol.

Brandon Osborne

Brandon Im not sure why you are so insistant that the Axanthics are also Anery's because they dont have red as juveniles ( you used to argue that they were Anery's and not Axanthics). Thats a total non issue as Ive produced normal Brooksi with zero red or orange on the sides and that doesnt make them anery's but according to your logic they would in fact be anery's ???? . The lack of a color can be the result of variation and its not always a mutation.

Keith
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So you're saying a proven line that produces EXTREME REDS wouldn't have a hint of anery in them? I'll stand where I always have.....more to it than just axanthic. And we're talking about proven lines here.

Brandon Osborne

Keith-
i agree with your point that variation does not have to be a mutation- could be selection, who knows but I agree with Brandon, with the proven extreme lavender albino lines when crossed to an axanthic/anerythristic, the hets do show red but the double homozygous phenotype (snow) doesn't show red at any stage as much as we have seen to this point. it has been a (fun but) futile argument up to this point because now people have done the breeding with a proven red line. I think there is some substance to the argument there is some effect on the genes controlling red pigment.
From some of the other forums (bull/pine discussing red bull genetics) it doesn't appear that red or lack of it- at least in those species - is simple recessive. I think some with the most experience say it is co dominant, so this may not be a simple point to prove out.
I think if you look back to my new year's post, one of my resolutions was to keep this axanthic/anery argument going!
have a good day,
db

Lloyd Lemke was one of the first people to advertise the axanthic brooks on his pricelist. He had them listed as anerythristics and not axanthics. He mentioned in the ad that they looked like "blue wax" ..if that bring anyones memory back.

I was a friend of Lloyds and spent some time with him while living in Calif. I also shared a table with twice him at the Orlando Expo. He used to say that the anerythristic brooksi was NOT an axanthic and was pretty vehement about it. I was not interested in those blue looking speckled things at the time and did not pay attention to remembering what he said. The new "blue wax" brooksi where not very popular because people did not know what it was or maybe they just did not give it much thought because they did not like to try new things. A subadult yearling anerythristic male sat on his table for the entire 1991 expo priced at $100. It sat in a deep dish deli cup with the non see through white bottom. I thought maybe people didn't see it. I did not buy it either. I beleive he took it home with him. This was all in

Point is, this pioneer in in herpetoculture was staunch on something years before anyone questioned the axanthic v.s. anerythristic brooksi thing. It was after his death that I first saw the term axantic applied. I beleive it was Bob Fengya who talked a lot of people into this change.

The change also took place after started reading Dr. Bern Bechtels came book on morphs. I read his book and what is weird he lists a mostly red tricolor snake (can't remember the spp.) as a axanthic(?). Later on I asked him about this seeming inconsistent label and he told me the terms can be used interchangably. I had the feeling it was a typo and his publisher did not catch it. So i further question him about the brooksi and he said the terms can be used interchangably.
I also showed him some of my newborn Peanut butters which look lavender (T albino) when born and then explained they get pigment as they shed and grow. I asked him what this was and he just shrugged as if to say their hasn't been enough names invented to name all these morphs. He then said its probably a type of hypomelanism.

Bottom line all this naming of traits is something we don't have down to a sweet science and I am sure we will see the tables turn a few more times. In the mean time I liked the term anerythristic because that what they first were labled as and I liked the term because it is in rememberance of the late Lloyd Lemke.

Peanut butter brooksi

so many tpyos it not eve ledge to me

LOL................You beat me to the punch Rainer.
John Lassiter

I can confirm that the female is from Llemke axanthic lines. I produced her from a pair of double hets for ghost in 2000. The first time I bred her it was to a hypo male, with several of the offspring coming out as hypos , so she is also het for hypomelanism. There are alot of excellent examples of the Llemke line out there...
Dave

..and THANKS DAVE!
I hope she's gravid now so I can test my 2x het/ghost male. He also bred a 2x het/ghost female and she's gettin' fat, so I have a good feeling so far.
:Mark

Mark-
breeding season picked up a little bit around here, just needed a little patience. I kind of forgot, I don't have those females here any more so the schedule is a little different working with first year boys and girls.
I hope you get some nice eggs from both.
When are you going back out in the field? I appreciate the pics you post.
Dave

...I guess I missed where he said he wanted a pic of an adult BHB anery/axanthic. I had no idea. Anyway, that's the only one I still have. See Dave's post below for the deal on this female.
:Mark

sweet snake, thanks for your pics everyone, I'll post a pic of her when I get a new camera or can borrow someones
Wayne