Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There has been a lot posted on this topic lately. Sadly many believe the inaccurate information of old beliefs or marketing schemes. Here is a quote from Rich Ihle's article:

"In the super salmon-to-super salmon crosses that have been performed in my facilities, all babies were scored as super salmon. These crosses verified our suspicions that salmon occurred both as homozygous (super salmon-same gene states) or heterozygous (salmon-different gene states) and thus supported the model o incommplete dominance as th;e mode of inheritance (Russell, 1990).

Formal Test of the Model
By spring 1999, I had sufficient numbers of offspring (more than 350 individuals) from various crosses to test for a model of incomplete dominance (Russell, 1990). the results of our statistical tests showed strong support for this mode of inheritance (Ihle, Schuett and Hughes, 2000). Therefore, with respect to wild type, the salmon trait shows incomplete dominance and thus occurs in two forms: a heterozygous state (salmon) and a homozygous state (super salmon).

Because the salmon trait is dominant, when it occurs in the heterozygous state it is expressed, although by way of one gene. In cases where a trait is inherited recessively, such as albinism in boas, individuals expressing the heterozygous state are identical in appearance to wild-type individuals." (Ihle 5,6)

For anyone who didn't read this before, here it is written out. This information is very good to help people learning about genetics to understand how Heterozygous and Homozygous traits work. In addition, heterozygotes (animals that are heterozygous) carry one allele of any given trait, instead of a pair. In non Super Salmons/Hypos, they have one mutant allele for the hypomelanism trait and one for wild type. Hypo is dominant over wild so it is expressed even in heterozygous animals. Unlike in albinos, heterozygous individuals here appear normal because wild type is dominant over amelanism. The homozygotes of the Hypomelanistic trait are Super Hypos/Salmons.

Thus is the reasoning behind DH Sunglow, or the pottential Quad Het as stated yesterday through breeding a Super Ghost X Super Arabesque Albino. In this case all would be quad het for Super Arabesque snowglow, the homozygous of Arabesque/Hypomelanistic/Anerythristic/Amelanistic.

np

n/p

Hey its cool to know that your 16 and highly educated in the herp world! I'm 21 and I am learning new things day by day about Boa's and Python's. My collection consist of two pairs of DH snows from Pro exotics(Chad Brown), LA snakes (Griff), A extra female DH snow from Randy middletown. Also a pair of PC salmon's from Rich (salmonboa), lone male triple het from shane kinney. I very proud of my collection and have deserved everyone from having a steady job and saving my money wisely. My girlfriend understands my fascination with boa's and loves them to! My boas mean very much to me and my life would be pretty dull without them.

I started out with my first boa in August of 03.
Current collection:
1.1 Costa Rican imperator (Grecia)
1.1 Bolivian amarali (Barnett.Miller)
1.1 66% het Blood (Burke)
0.1 Kahl stripe line Albino
0.1 Hypomelanistic
0.1 66% het Leopard
1.0 Anerythristic (for now)
1.0 Argentine X Colombian (Kahl)
0.1 Surinam X Hog Island
1.1 Hypomelanistic Sonoran imperator (on payment)
1.0 Type II Anery 66% het Blizzard (Stone; on payment)

It is fun, and with each new animal comes an increase in knowledge.

>>n/p
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I think it's great,that you have taken the time to educate yourself in this Hobby/business!It show's us all one thing,An that is that you will definatley go far in whatever you decide to do in your life!You have some beauties in your collection!An whatever you have posted in the past has taken some time an patience on your part to learn these things!Keep up the awsome work!Eric[Hypoboa]
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E&C's Exotic House of Reptiles

n/p

I saw that snake on the kingsnake some time ago but i dont remember who was selling him. I really like it. Is there any breeder doing hypos like that?

Thanx
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Gabor

www.boas-pythons.pl

I purchased her last year from Ken Foster, he bought her from Rich Ihle. I recieved her on 13 July 2004.

I love her, and she won't be leaving. Mainly due to my inability to find another. Her color has increased dramatically, that was taken shortly after Christmas.

I do not know of anyone specific produceing hypos like that, but someone had to. I know I will in the future. Unsure of mate though, Leopard, Type II Anery, or Blood. Probably Leopard.

too much talk about Ihle's work, I was thinking Ben, but typed Rich. Oh well, it happens.

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Gabor

www.boas-pythons.pl

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n/p

Thanks. I have never seen Rich's description. It would be interesting to know exactly what is occuring biochemically in a hypo/salmon. To this end it is a little misleading to term the trait as dominant (or co-dominant) since hypomelanism might actually be the simple loss (or near complete loss) of the function of one copy of a gene in the melanin synthesis pathway due to a single mutation. If this is the case, then it isn't really dominant since no gene product (or very little) is being produced, therefore, it is merely a loss of function mutation that can always be observed visually whether in the heterozygous or homozygous state. Then again, hypomelanism may be much more complicated and possibly involve inhibitors or activators of the melanin pathway either at the DNA level (transcription), at the RNA level (translation), or at the enzyme level.

>>There has been a lot posted on this topic lately. Sadly many believe the inaccurate information of old beliefs or marketing schemes. Here is a quote from Rich Ihle's article:
>>
>>"In the super salmon-to-super salmon crosses that have been performed in my facilities, all babies were scored as super salmon. These crosses verified our suspicions that salmon occurred both as homozygous (super salmon-same gene states) or heterozygous (salmon-different gene states) and thus supported the model o incommplete dominance as th;e mode of inheritance (Russell, 1990).
>>
>>Formal Test of the Model
>>By spring 1999, I had sufficient numbers of offspring (more than 350 individuals) from various crosses to test for a model of incomplete dominance (Russell, 1990). the results of our statistical tests showed strong support for this mode of inheritance (Ihle, Schuett and Hughes, 2000). Therefore, with respect to wild type, the salmon trait shows incomplete dominance and thus occurs in two forms: a heterozygous state (salmon) and a homozygous state (super salmon).
>>
>>Because the salmon trait is dominant, when it occurs in the heterozygous state it is expressed, although by way of one gene. In cases where a trait is inherited recessively, such as albinism in boas, individuals expressing the heterozygous state are identical in appearance to wild-type individuals." (Ihle 5,6)
>>
>>For anyone who didn't read this before, here it is written out. This information is very good to help people learning about genetics to understand how Heterozygous and Homozygous traits work. In addition, heterozygotes (animals that are heterozygous) carry one allele of any given trait, instead of a pair. In non Super Salmons/Hypos, they have one mutant allele for the hypomelanism trait and one for wild type. Hypo is dominant over wild so it is expressed even in heterozygous animals. Unlike in albinos, heterozygous individuals here appear normal because wild type is dominant over amelanism. The homozygotes of the Hypomelanistic trait are Super Hypos/Salmons.
>>
>>Thus is the reasoning behind DH Sunglow, or the pottential Quad Het as stated yesterday through breeding a Super Ghost X Super Arabesque Albino. In this case all would be quad het for Super Arabesque snowglow, the homozygous of Arabesque/Hypomelanistic/Anerythristic/Amelanistic.
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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

That information would be great to know.

Chromosomes contain all the genes that make up an animal. Each trait has either become natural through evolution for that trait or it is an oddity, a mutation in the genes or caused by environmental factors.
If Hypomelanism is caused by a mutant gene, or interpretation of that gene it can be passed on. Since animals recieve one set of chromosomes from each parent to combine into pairs, the Salmon trait is most likely a product of this.

I sure don't remember it all! You make a great point. Reptile genetics are likely over simplified. Recessive, dominant, co-dominate etc is first month 9th grade biology, which was a good two months before I zoned out. Actuall application gets a lot more complicated. I'm going to go sell all of my neuropsych books and buy some biology texts so I can keep up!

I took second year Hn. Bio this year and it led more into Sex-linked traits and incomplete dominance, over simple recessive and dominance from 9th grade. Sex-linkage gets very confuseing.

Wait until you cover gene regulation in your college bio class. It gets complicated after that. LOL

>>I took second year Hn. Bio this year and it led more into Sex-linked traits and incomplete dominance, over simple recessive and dominance from 9th grade. Sex-linkage gets very confuseing.
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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles

That my contention with classifying the trait as "incomplete dominant" has nothing to do with any intended disrespect for Rich,or,his work,(I salute him for it.)I read the article shortly after it was first presented,(I've re-read it numerous times.)and,I've also read in detail the criteria for Russell's model of incomplete dominance.At any rate,I'm not neccessarily trying to split hairs here,the fact that now at least a few more people understand the premise of "heterozygousity" as it relates to genetic traits is a step in the right direction.Occaisionaly it is neccessary to look back,and,reassess what we thought yesterday,and,compare it to what we see more clearly today.When discussing this topic many people have sited Rich's article as though it was the eleventh commandment,chisled in stone.(at the time of its publication it was groundbreaking stuff,no one had really taken this approach before.)I'm simply the type of person that is always re-examining everything,I think the real 11th commandment is "The only thing that isn't subject to change,is the notion that everything is subject to change." (*lol*) I'm never as worried about being wrong,as I am about being afraid to think outside the box.(p.s. I still believe it's the most perfect example of a "dominant" trait,I've ever seen! *lol*)

I fully agree with you. And like you believe it to be dominant as well. Incomplete Dominance refers to how it reacts with different mutations, nothing yet has proven that it is incomplete or complete, either way dominance is the mode of inheritance. Its reaction and alteration to phenotype when combined with other traits needs to be further examined. It is not as easy as the red and white flower makeing a pink one. The Hypomelanistic gene is variable in its self.

"The Hypomelanistic gene is variable in its self."

And may actually have more than one gene involved considering the range of color and pattern. I have produced my share of hypos, yet to date I have not produced a normal one (non-hypo sibling within a hypo litter) that had the pattern anomolies that have popped up in hypos in every litter. This suggests that the genes controlling pattern and hypomelanism are strongly linked, unless they are controlled by the same gene which seems unlikely.
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Rick Staub
R&R Reptiles