Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've seen many posts regarding the use of shiners and goldfish and the problems associated with vitamin deficiencies in captive water snakes, but what about croakers, spots and other marine fish/tidal estuary fish? One of our local supermarkets had 8-packs of small croakers today for $2.00 a pack; they were fairly fresh but much too small in my opinion for human consumption, so I bought a pack to try out on my larger water snakes. I didn't even know if they'd eat a salt water fish or not, but my big red-belly devoured one very eagerly. The big banded is in shed, so she wasn't interested. Question is, is it safe to continue to feed them marine fish or not?

Sharon Mckenzie

I honestly don't know for sure. But seeing as many species of water snake go into brackish water/estuaries on occasion I don't think every now and then would hurt much. I would suggest not suing it until someone with more experience/knowlede puts in there $0.2. I have enver realy even thought about it becasue I use bream and scented rodents for my Nerodia. I realy wish Pireson was on here!!! I miss reading his posts and he has great knowledge and field experience, but there are so many other GREAT people that come to this forum that will more than likely give you a good answer. Well, I have got to go to field herpers now!!

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Justin

Vitamin B deficiency is caused by an enzyme in the fishes gut that breaks down the Vitamin B in that fish only after death when the gut has started to decompose. Goldfish and minnows are high in this enzyme, but fed live the enzyme is quickly neutralized by the digestive process,and has no effect. Water snakes will eat croakers, when I was kid in florida, I used to catch florida banded watersnakes by leaving a stringer of croakers in the reeds at night and checking on it in the early morning. If you are feeding dead gutted fish, you will be missing may nutrients that the whole fish has. I would stick with live goldfish.

On a side note, you should get the croakers for yourself. They are very boney, but taste great! My favorite fish.

I would suggest to stay away from gold fish. The breeders put this certain chemical (I can't remember what it is though) in the water to kill algae (I think to kill algae) that is perfectly fine for the fish but will build up in reptiles liver and screw them up bad and would eventually kill. That is if it was the base diet for a long period of time. That is how it is with turtles and they are like the toughest reptiles on earth and can kill them so I think it would bother them. If fed goldfish every now and then then there should be no preoblems but just be careful about it. I would suggest getting it on rodents.
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Justin

There are plenty of reasons not to feed gold fish, a build up of possible algae toxins is a new one on me. Gold fish are very dirty and filled with parasites. That being said most snakes that eat fish are resistant and do well on gold fish. I've raised garters, watersnakes and speckled racers and 30 years I've never see one die from eating a gold fish or from being kept on a diet of them long term. Rodents on the other hand are equally dirty and raise on feed that can have exessive vitamin/minerals, also lab raised rodents have high fat to body mass ratio which is unhealthy for the long term. Saying that mice are better then goldfish is like saying Mcdonalds is better then burgerking.

Actualy I do agree with what you said. It is just something that I took with me from working with turtles and was told by many experienced/knowledgable turtle "guys" that the gold fish is bad. I like giving my snakes a variety and do not feed just fish or just rodents. I knew about the fat content and all in rodnets and that is the main reason why I raise my own food, that wya I know what is in it. I am still steerign away from goldfish though.
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Justin

Well I agree with raising your own food it makes a huge difference regardless of the food item. The only problem with it, is that you end up spending more time caring for the food then you do the pet it's intended for. And don't ever let your wife/girl friend/ mother see the cute little babies that you will soon be bashing in the head!

Yeah, I've eaten Croaker many, many times, but these are so small, it wouldn't be worth the trouble to clean them. By the time I got through doing that, the piece left to cook and eat wouldn't be more than three inches long! They are really small, no more than five or six inches, and that is the entire fish, head and all! They have not been gutted-they are fully intact. The store is selling them in packs of eight or nine, all fitting on an average-sized styrofoam meat tray, for around $2.00 per pack.

I can get live Shiners with no problem from a bait shop, but it's getting harder to feed the big Watersnakes on Shiners. A four-foot Redbelly can really put away some fish, and it gets pretty darn expensive! Still, the two larger Watersnakes are invaluable for my educational presentations, because they are big and because both are also very calm and docile. They are really good for showing people the differences between them and Cottonmouths, since most people think ANY snake found near water MUST be a Cottonmouth...I'm sure we've all heard of the dreaded "Redbellied Mocossin"!

Sharon McKenzie

The best way to eat them is to not to bother trying to filet them just cook at pick at. The venomous snake thing works the other way too, I one had a copper head that I told everyone was red eye Florida water snake.