Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Kim, the kids and I arrived in Del Rio late Fiday night. The wind was extremely high and we were extremely tired, so we crashed out at the lake around 2:00 A.M. No need to waste our time at this hour with that wind. Saturday, we did the routine in Acuna, then headed out to Langtry. We cruised the dirt to the now defunked Pandale store. It is under new ownership but is not yet open for business. The area was totally dead. We headed back to 90 at dusk and we saw only one 2 foot atrox. After we were on the highway, we hunted cuts intermittantly all the way to Sanderson. A storm was off in the distance and this was good, but we still saw nothing. We later found out that Dan Grubbs and John Michaels (AKA Dangerdan and Yani)were blessed by the alterna GODS and caught one large male Blairi, and one med-dark phase blairi about 1.5 feet long. Congrats guys! I will let them post the pics. I would say they are hooked now.
I do have to report that there are issues now brewing in Sanderson with local law enforcement regarding herping off the shoulder of the road. I recieved my first citation ever for "driving on the improved shoulder of the highway and traveling under 45 miles and hour". Sooooooooooooooooo, be careful out there and walk the cuts with your hazards or parking lights on and make sure you park well off the shoulder of the road. Feel free to e-mail me if you want more details regarding this.
This trip was basically a fun trip for the family, and as Kim said, a chnace to get away form Houston's rat race, but it was very unproductive collecting wise. I am scheduled to go out again this coming weekend. Later.

Wayne

You didn't show them your letter? What's wrong with you man? Hey, the boy's back in town, so I'll need to get his critter at some point. Will let you know. Hey, how'd Caleb let someone else snag a snake?

As far as I know there is no law in Texas that prevents you from driving on the shoulder. I think there is something about passing on the right, but not for just being on the shoulder so other cars can pass you.

And unless there is a posted minimum speed limit then the driving too slow is BS.

Plead innocent and appeal it out if you can.

Who was that issued the citations? DPS...

Just an FYI from the Texas Traffic Code:

§ 545.058. DRIVING ON IMPROVED SHOULDER[0]. (a) An
operator may drive on an improved shoulder[0] to the right of the main
traveled portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may
be done safely, but only:
(1) to stop, stand, or park;
(2) to accelerate before entering the main traveled
lane of traffic;
(3) to decelerate before making a right turn;
(4) to pass another vehicle that is slowing or stopped
on the main traveled portion of the highway, disabled, or preparing
to make a left turn;
(5) to allow another vehicle traveling faster to pass;
(6) as permitted or required by an official
traffic-control device; or
(7) to avoid a collision.
(b) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder[0] to the
left of the main traveled portion of a divided or limited-access or
controlled-access highway if that operation may be done safely, but
only:
(1) to slow or stop when the vehicle is disabled and
traffic or other circumstances prohibit the safe movement of the
vehicle to the shoulder[0] to the right of the main traveled portion of
the roadway;
(2) as permitted or required by an official
traffic-control device; or
(3) to avoid a collision.
(c) A limitation in this section on driving on an improved
shoulder[0] does not apply to:
(1) an authorized emergency vehicle responding to a
call;
(2) a police patrol; or
(3) a bicycle.
-----
Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

§ 545.363. MINIMUM SPEED[0] REGULATIONS. (a) An operator
may not drive so slowly as to impede the normal and reasonable
movement of traffic, except when reduced speed[0] is necessary for
safe operation or in compliance with law.
(b) When the Texas Transportation Commission, the Texas
Turnpike Authority, the commissioners court of a county, or the
governing body of a municipality, within the jurisdiction of each,
as applicable, as specified in Sections 545.353 to 545.357,
determines from the results of an engineering and traffic
investigation that slow speeds[0] on a part of a highway consistently
impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the
commission, authority, county commissioners court, or governing
body may determine and declare a minimum speed[0] limit[0] on the highway.
(c) If appropriate signs are erected giving notice of a
minimum speed[0] limit[0] adopted under this section, an operator may not
drive a vehicle more slowly than that limit[0] except as necessary for
safe operation or in compliance with law.

I think that this part; "as to impede the normal and reasonable
movement of traffic," could probably be argued effectively in court.
Just my opinion but:

Issue one: Impeding the REASONABLE movement of Traffic outside of Sanderson? I don't think a reasonable Judge (especially one from sanderson) would agree that there is too much traffic in Sanderson that your driving slow ON THE SHOULDER would hinder their movment.

Issue two: To impede traffic in the first place, wouldn't you have to be in a traffic lane? The shoulder is there to get out of the traffic lane.

Issue three: "(c) If appropriate signs are erected giving notice of a
minimum speed limit adopted under this section"
I would ask a the officer that issued the citation (in court) to define "If appropriate" (from section c above) and if he deems it NOT APPROPRIATE, ask him why is it not? I think I would harp on the issue ask him to tell you where the minimum speed limit is posted.

I would fight this citation for sure. Sounds too much like pickin on the snake hunters to me. I'm not an attny. but see some valid arguements here.
-----
Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

If he was legally driving slowley at night (reduced visability, whatever) because there is no posted minimum speed limit to say otherwise. And the shoulder was a safe means to let faster traffic pass.

The two tickets can actually conflict each other.

No matter how you look at it though, they are not justified at all and this guy is stepping outside of reasonable enforcement of public safety.

Thanks a bunch for the postings guys. I am already putting my case together and if need be, it will be fought vigorously in court. If I have to move it out of Sanderson to get a fair trial I will do that as well. Thanks guys.

Wayne

But it seems you and I often (respectfully) disagree about matters of the law (LOL) -

Here's what you are allowed to do, and how it might apply here...
§ 545.058.
(a) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder[0] to the right of the main traveled portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may be done safely, but only:
(1) to stop, stand, or park;- not applicable
(2) to accelerate before entering the main traveled lane of traffic;- not applicable
(3) to decelerate before making a right turn;- not applicable
(4) to pass another vehicle that is slowing or stopped on the main traveled portion of the highway, disabled, or preparing to make a left turn;- not applicable
(5) to allow another vehicle traveling faster to pass;Here there MIGHT be an argument because of your slow speed. However, I think any judge with half a brain would understand that the law was intended only to allow driving on the shoulder WHILE another vehicle was passing or trying to pass. I don't think this situation meets that test.
(6) as permitted or required by an official traffic-control device; or - not applicable
(7) to avoid a collision.- not applicable

It seems they are clearly in violation of both the letter and intent of this statute.

However, the driving too slow citation (if that is what the ticketed offense was) would be thrown out. If it is illegal to drive on the shoulder, then there can't be a minimum speed at which you must travel while you aren't traveling on the shoulder (????). That citation will clearly get tossed. However the "driving on the shoulder" citation will stick, IMHO.

I might point out that if Wayne and Kim were burning cuts while driving on the shoulder (it sounds like that was what they were doing?), they were in violation of TPWD regs as well. The new interpretation of roadhunting doesn't apply to spotlighting, AFAIK.
-----
Chris Harrison

When I road cruise I am in the lane of traffic until a car approaches from behind. Then I pull over to let them pass safely. With no posted minimum speed that should be legal.

Lance

When I was near Alpine last year I actually drove in the grass and not on the warning lane. What would be your take on that? Any ideas? Thanks...Ric Blair

Ric, if you are asking me, hell, ............this is all bullshi* and everybody knows it. It just comes down to harassment of snakehunters because they are pissed off at postings. I have other theories as well, but will not discuss them on the public forum. Anyway, no offense, but I will not lower myself to drive in the grass where I will get flats when I as a tax payer pay for the upkeep of those dam*** roads. Roads are meant to drive on and there is a reason for shoulders as well, and I was using that shoulder, AS WE ALL DO. All this is a CROCK!

if you drive and cross a grassy medium, or jump a curb to exit a parking lot for example, it would usually be classified as "crossing physical barrier." so driving off the shoulder into the grass would be the same thing.