Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have build wood racks before, but I would like to build a small version of a freedom breeder using 41qt tubs. Wheels, metal cloth, ex I could get at home depot. But I don't know exactly where to go to buy the frame. Doesn't exactly have to be an extremely sturdy frame like the freedom breeder racks. It would work if it were made out of a thick aluminum. Can anyone point me in the right direction or give me some tips on where to begin.

Thanks,
Kyle

Unproven Ghost

The local Menards sells 3/4" aluminum tubing and connectors for making your own shelving etc. the connectors come in 3 way for top and bottoms and 4 way for middle sections. Its easy to use if you have a means of making clean, square cuts (I use a power miter box with and old plywood blade for this). Assembly couldn't be simpler once your cuts are made.

BigT
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Hope this helps.

BigT
There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. The ignorant can be taught, stupidity is beyond our control.

Hey BigT,

Without seeing the exact product (my local Menards does not have them) I'd guess there are 1" varieties of the companies aluminum connectors available online. I have samples of both and can tell that the 1" square tubing is a MUCH preferable product to use for aluminum rack or cage construction. It would take a lot less aluminum stock to beef up the rack so it was stable enough. The 1" connectors would pay for themselves, in my opinion, just in saved aluminum stock.

After seeing these aluminum racks behinds the scenes at a zoo I ordered my own samples and started research what it would take to build my own rack.

Without getting too verbose, I was left a bit disenchanted with how much I was going to have to spend on a DIY aluminum rack and how lousy of a track system I'd have to settle for. I was more than happy to spend the money but I wanted better function.

The cheap track was going to need to be supported at three points along the length which meant more square tubing and connectors.

The angle that was rigid enough to be self-supported was very expensive and meant having to build a wider rack. The wideness was not much of an issue but the cost and function was. Ultimately I abandoned the project because I just was not happy with any of my options for a track system.

As I'm sure you've heard me say before, there are three reasons why I build my own stuff 1) to save money, 2) to achieve design features I can't find in a commercial product and 3) for the satisfaction of doing it myself.

Well once I figured out the best way to build the rack I was 1) not saving much money, 2) not happy with some of the design features, and 3) wouldn't get much satisfaction due to #1 and #2.

But still being someone interested in building stuff, I do have an opinion for the original poster.

Build a track-style rack from wood. There are plans for this at arbreptiles.com. I suggest this, of course, under the assumption that saving money is one of your goals. You will save some money if you build your own aluminum rack but the savings won't be nearly as great as the type of money one normally can save from building their own cages and racks.

At least if my calculations were correct
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

There isn't a local Menards in los angeles or southern california for that matter. But I will check a few different hardware stores and see if I can find the parts your talking about. Thanks

here is a link for some connectors. they are under 3$

also, they make the hollow square bar in pvc as well. it cost less than the aluminum. i have not been able to find connectors for them but i imagine the aluminum connectors would work.
for the pvc go to www.usplastics.com and search for "hollow square"

here is the links to the connectors

www.brunnerent.com/Tools/Portfolio/frontend/itemlist.asp?type=2&size=0&lngDisplay=2&strMetaTag

www.wclco.com/pdf/plastics/150-
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1.1 Gargoyle geckos
1.1 leucistic leopard gecko
0.0.1 asian golden tree frog
1.0 oriental firebelly toad
0.1 european firebelly toad
1.0 albino betta
1.0 orange tabby
0.0.1 asian painted frog
1.0 broad headed skink
0.0.1 fowlers toad
1.1 red eyed tree frog
1.1 red eared sliders
476.769.47 feeder crickets

Called the company, inside diameters are wrong

I saw a cage at the humane society today made of square stryrene and square plastic connectors. But I can't find the things to save my life.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

"I saw a cage at the humane society today made of square stryrene and square plastic connectors. But I can't find the things to save my life."
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trust me, i know, i looked for connectors for square pvc for many many many many hours. i called literally like 20 plastic distributors/manufacturers and couldnt get ANY help. things like that are just hard to track down. i eventually decided to use aluminium for a distant rack project. i probly wont save money,, but heck i need a reason for all those tools i keep buying
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1.1 Gargoyle geckos
1.1 leucistic leopard gecko
0.0.1 asian golden tree frog
1.0 oriental firebelly toad
0.1 european firebelly toad
1.0 albino betta
1.0 orange tabby
0.0.1 asian painted frog
1.0 broad headed skink
0.0.1 fowlers toad
1.1 red eyed tree frog
1.1 red eared sliders
476.769.47 feeder crickets

I'm going to go back and get the name of the cage company. It was printed right on the cage but I was in a hurry and did not write it down. Maybe I can find something out from the company.

I probably would not use the plastic tubing for a rack but would consider it for a cage.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Around here the square and circular pvc joints are available at most plumbing and construction stores. I know of 2 shops in Wichita that carry them (something like .50 cents each for the 1" diameter tubing joints and .75 for square tubing 1" joints) Try checking out the plumbing shops for them.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

Thanks Randall, I will check out some plumbing stores in my area and see if I can make that rack (w/ the Iris tubs).

Kyle,

If you try the square PVC tubing maybe just make one level and see how it works. The square PVC cage I saw at my local humane society flexed when I placed a finger on it and pressed down. And it was a span about the same as the length of a CB-70 rack, maybe even shorter. And it was slightly supported by a mesh overlay so in a rack type setup it may have been more flexible.

At any rate, my concern is the PVC square tubing and PVC angle will be too flexible for a rack.

On the other hand, if you can find the components locally, it should be a cheap experiment.

I'll look forward to hearing how it goes.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I guess I will have to test it out, if I find all the material to make the rack. I have so many options now, but I think I am leaning more towards making a rack out of HC doors. I think you sold me on that, but I won't know till I make a few more trips to the hardware store.

Sorry, I read BigT's reply and thought you were limiting your questions to aluminum. After re-reading your post I see you just mentioned aluminum as one possibility.

I have build wood racks before, but I would like to build a small version of a freedom breeder using 41qt tubs.

I assume you mean the 41 qt. Sterilite tubs. If that really is the tub you plan to use I don't recommend running it on a track like a Vision or Freedom Breeder rack. I tested this box and decided it needed to be supported from underneath.

You can still build a more open style rack but you need to come up with a way for the tub to be supported from underneath rather than from the sides. This box won't work with the rack shown on arbreptiles.com.

But I don't know exactly where to go to buy the frame.

What is your purpose for building your own rack? 1) saving money? 2) for design features you want and can't find?, or 3) something else?

If you don't mind a heavier rack and have access to a welder I'd recommend steel tubing. I have a handful of friends who were looking into building aluminum racks and scoffed when they saw the prices of the material. They all went to either wood or welded steel.

Since I needed a quarantine rack that could be completely broken down I just bought a Vision rack. If a more permanent rack was okay for my use I'd just build one from wood like on arbreptiles.

At any rate, let me know exactly what you're trying to achieve with this rack and I'll see if I have any ideas.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

http://arbreptiles.com/cages/iris_rack/iris_rack.shtml

Again, this is what I'd do if I wanted to build my own open-style, hanging rack or whatever you call it. Although now that I have two Visions I'd probably just buy another one of those. I justified the purchase due to my quarantine concerns but they are just so nice I'd probably want them for my breeder cages as well.

But this thread is about building, so I digress. Assuming that money saving is a concern, I'd forget about aluminum and go with wood. If you have access to a welder, consider square steel tubing. I have not priced the steel.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I have seen the aluminum racks build out of Iris tubs and also the 41qt sterilite tubs. I prefer using 41qt because there cheaper, I can get them at big lots for 5 bucks a piece. The Iris tubs are made nicer, but there usually around 15-20 dollars at the container store. I would like to build my own racks mainly to save money. If I could afford a freedom breeder I would buy one in a heart beat, but for right now I will be building my own. I have seen arbreptiles.com wood racks, but I would like to make a lighter racks. If all else fails I will make a rack out of wood.

I have seen the aluminum racks build out of Iris tubs and also the 41qt sterilite tubs.

Were the Sterilite tubs hanging from a track or supported by angle from underneath? Regardless, that was one of the major issues with early Freedom Breeders that the boxes did not hold up. The rim around the edge just wasn't strong enough. So you may see it now, will you see it in three years?

That won't be an issue with the Iris boxes. I do believe the Iris boxes are worth the extra money. Even if they are discontinued the boxes should last you a lifetime. I have heard of too many stories where someone has an empty rack because all the boxes had cracked and were discontinued.

I also like the Iris boxes because the insides are completely smooth. No annoying ridges for deficate and urates to get stuck in. On the same note, the plastic is different and I have found them to be easier to clean. But really I like their super strong construction. I'd buy them even if they weren't smooth and used the same plastic as every other box.

I would like to build my own racks mainly to save money. I have seen arbreptiles.com wood racks, but I would like to make a lighter racks. If all else fails I will make a rack out of wood.

The ARB style rack is much lighter than the typical enclosed rack. Freedom Breeders are heavier than you'd expect. I would not be surprised if an ARB style rack was lighter, depending on what you chose for the tops.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I use the 41qt tubs as well and I got mine at Big Lots as well and the open rack doesn't work like chris said. The lip isn't nearly big enough and the tubs is bowed out so its not straight meaning that the tracks will have to constrict the tub in the middle causing some bindage. Which is bad cause we ant smooth moving racks. The only way to use this tub practically, is to build a solid top and bottom out of wood melamine or Sintra. Similar to Boaphile's Ball Rack. I built mine the same way but mine are 5 tall not 4. The only problem I have is it takes a lot of wood since each tub is 36" long a whole sheet of material only makes 4 sheets and another sheet for the sides. 2 4x8 sheets of material will build one 4 high rack. If using melimine thats 25 dollers a tub where as Vision is 60 not much more for saving on labor and time.

If I would do it all over I would scrap the 41qt idea an buy a Vision CB-70 Rack with heat. Its only 800 for 10 heated cages thats 80 a cage not to bad. For having to do nothing.
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"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

You'll spend half that just to build the frame and buy the boxes if you do it yourself. Then you need plastic for the top and some sort of track system.

Oh yeah, and the heat.

Short story, building aluminum racks is not a money saving endeavor...

Hey congrats on the marriage. I did not hear of any missing fiance stories so I assume you went through with it
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I checked the freedom breeders website and I thought they were still making the racks with the 41qt, guess not. I just had seen old freedom breeder racks using the 41qt tubs recently......I was thinking of a rack like this http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=22&de=269547

Well I can't help you there as that's the one rack on the market I've never seen.

At any rate, Bighurt did a great job of explaining why Sterilites 41 qt. box is a poor choice for a track-style rack. I do recommend you use the CB-70 if you want to use a track.

To make some general comments, you have said that cost and weight are primary issues for you. I think that's what most of us want. In general when I design something I tend to go in one direction. Either 1) as cheap as possible, or 2) and nice as possible, or 3) as light as possible.

It's when you start combining two or more of those traits that things get difficult. When it comes to DIY racks cheap and light is an especially tough combination.

One compromise between cost and weight, especially for larger boxes (again, Bighurt did an excellent job of explaining why big boxes waste so much material) is to build racks from hollow core doors.

Here is a picture of a rack I built from HC doors that holds 12 of the Iris CB-80 boxes:

The rack was very inexpensive and wasted zero material. It is also fairly light. If I would have taken the time to make the sides from HC doors it would be quite light.

You don't have to build the rack so large. Here is a picture of one that was built from cut down doors:

Plans for this rack are available at RioBravoReptiles.com

One comment I'll make is that if you build from HC doors I would seal the upperside of each door with vinyl film used in the sign industry. Very durable and cheap.

If you want to build a rack similar to the Barrs rack you posted it will be a bit tougher to keep the costs down.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

I like the idea that the rack is very light, but I would have to learn how to use a saw. When I build something, I usually have home depot cut all the wood. I know they don't cut doors and I don't know any hardware store that does. But building a rack that way would work, doors are very sturdy and light. 20 bucks a door isn't to bad either. How well do you like your rack?

I like the idea that the rack is very light, but I would have to learn how to use a saw.

With the picture of my rack none of the doors needed to be cut. However, I only needed 32" doors so the rack is only 34.5" front to back so I can fit it through doors etc. If I had built the same rack for CB-70's or the Sterilite 41 qt. it would be much deeper and could not have been built so large.

Not sure what I'd do in that case. Probably build the rack in my snake room but make it so it can be taken apart.

How well do you like your rack?

I would build it again. I think I bought 4 doors for $20 each, a sheet of melamine for $25, and a sheet of peg board for $8. All the screws, glue, etc. were stuff I already had laying around.

From everything you've told me (not having access to a saw, wanting a rack that is both cheap and light) I think you really need to decide what compromise you will make.

I think the HC doors are a decent compromise. The biggest concern I'd have on your behalf is whether or not you could build the rack in your snake room and leave it there. If you'd need to wheel it in and out frequently you might have to consider something else.

Honestly, that would hold true even if you were able to cut the doors. The rack would still be 36" or more front to back so you'd have to keep in only one box wide so it would fit through doors. I don't think that would work well with the HC doors.

Does that make sense?
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

also.. a good place to find HC doors is thrift stores like goodwill, etc. especially the places that have reconditioned matresses and furnitures and the like. i have seen them for like 5 bucks.

or if your paper lets you place free wanted ads try that. you would be surprised how many people remodeled thier houses and kept the old doors. this would greatly diminish your cost.
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1.1 Gargoyle geckos
1.1 leucistic leopard gecko
0.0.1 asian golden tree frog
1.0 oriental firebelly toad
0.1 european firebelly toad
1.0 albino betta
1.0 orange tabby
0.0.1 asian painted frog
1.0 broad headed skink
0.0.1 fowlers toad
1.1 red eyed tree frog
1.1 red eared sliders
476.769.47 feeder crickets

Thanks, I will look in to it.

If im going to go with the HC doors I am going to have to learn how to use a saw, if I want to save money on building racks.

For one rack you won't need to. Just have a 1/2" sheet of plywood crosscut into two pieces at 48"x36" and then use what's left to form supports for the front and back.

With the size of the 41 qt. box I think it's going to be very difficult to build a rack you can move around. So why not just go ahead and build it big?

As far as learning to use a saw, just get a decent circular saw and and edge-guide. Spend some money on a quality blade and a carpenters square and you can build almost anything.

Probably could get all the tools for a bit over $100.
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Current snakes:

0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

7.6 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

0.1 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black & Tan)

Thanks Chris for all the advise. I will have my own snake room in about 4 months, I can't wait. I will start building some racks soon. Thanks again, you have been very helpful