Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey, few months ago I went out and purchased a new veiled chameleon, roughly 6 months old. I named him Nebus after a friend of mine (combination of their nick names). Anyways, all is doing well with him, I've had to replace a couple of plants that have died. Luckily my room seems to be staying at a temperature of about 82-84F on it's own, so heating isn't causing any problems, watering is going well, etc. Just one thing that I've noticed, almost every other veiled chameleon is green, while Nebus is a more brown, the only time he's ever green is when he's asleep. I've checked the temperature, and I've checked to make sure there's no drafts in the room, and his cage is well ventilated, etc. Plenty of hiding spots (I've had times where I've had to give up looking for him cause he was soo deep in the leaves). And I've read that dark colouring is usualy a sgn that they're stressed, etc. But I've run through the basic check list of stress causing problems and have found nothing that would be causing him stress. Are some veilds simply brown?

I was going to attach a picture here, but unfortunately my computer doesn't feel like cooperating with me

Colors vary throughout the day according to temps, stress, etc. but if he is remaining dark all the time something is not quite right in chameleon land. :-/ Even though your room is always warm is his basking spot hot enough? Can he see any other animals? Has he always been this color for all the months you have had him? Have you had a fecal done?

Listing your setup and feeding regimen can help us troubleshoot. Go to the link below and look at ehe "Questions" section to give all the info needed.

lele
Chameleon Help & Resource Info

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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Chameleon Help & Resource Info

Yes, he's always been a brown-ish, ever since I bought him, where he was still this brown. His basking spot sits roughly at 84F. Although was higher before (I switched to a weaker bulb when the weather started to warm up). In terms of having other animals in view, there is a snake and a bearded dragon on the other sides of the room from him, although he's considerably raised above them, and there's at least 7-8ft between them MINIMUM (more even more space between the beardie and the chameleon)

In terms of set up I have a verticle enclosure (forgot dimensions/size, though I have no doubt it's of appropriate size for him). In the enclosure I have 2 pieces of grape vine that cross eachother leading up close to the top (but not soo close that he can hang from the lid or anything). I also have a hibiscus, pathos, and a tree planted in there with him (forgot what type of tree it was, ficcus?) In terms of feeding, he gets roughly 6 crickets (one or two give or take) daily, dusted with a multivitamin powder, and another D3 vitamin supplement powder. The crickets are gut loaded with carrot and commercialy available cricket food.

What is the ambient room temp? 84 for a basking site is a low - it should be more like 90-95, with the rest of the enclosure being about 80-85. The temps may be to low, hence the reason for the darker coloration.
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Frogs - D. leucomelas, D. tinctorius, D. azureus, D. auratus, P. vittatus, P. bicolor
Chams - Werner's, Panthers, Veiled
Geckos - Cresteds, Gargoyles
Rough Scaled Sand Boa

also...are you dusting with vitamin AND calcium EVERYday? If so, it is too frequent and they should not be combined due to interactions and breakdown of nutrients. What brands due you use?
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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Chameleon Help & Resource Info

I'm using re-cal. I raised the temperature up to the 92F (few degrees give or take). Still, everything seems the same with him, I do realise though that the term "dark colouration" may have been a little misleading though in my last post. He is not soo much dark as in black/really dark brown dark, but he is still a brown with greens (mostly around the bottom) and yellow(ish) stripes on his sides. The following picture is him as the most green I've ever seen him when he's been awake. Please note that I DO NOT handle him, and that this picture was taken while I was removing him from his enclosure so I could get in there to plant a few plants which required me taking a lot of things appart and I didn't want him getting injured in the process.

is it in the KS gallery?
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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Chameleon Help & Resource Info

nope, lemme see if I can get it this time

Is he drinkign OK? Maybe it is the angle, but the top "brow" look quite extended over the eye turret.

From what you said about supplementing in aprevious post it seemed way too much. Please post your set up info - I'll make it easy on you (from Cham Research page)

#1 Cage type: What size and type of cage (screen, glass, etc.)?

#2 Temperatures: What is the basking temperature? How do you measure the temperature in your setup? What is the temperature in the warmest spot? The coolest spot? At night? During the day? You should measure the temperature of the chameleons' skin or the surface of its current branch to get a more accurate reading. Do you leave any heat on at night? What is the temperature in the room at night?

#3 Lighting: What brand is your UVB light? How long have you been using it? How long are your lights on each day? Do you leave any lights on at night? Where are the lights? on top?

#4 Humidity: Do you have a humidity gauge? What is the range of relative humidity (RH) from lowest to highest? How long does it take to go from high to low? Do you use a humidifier? Do you live in the north or south (or other)?

#5 Water: Have you observed your chameleon drinking? How often do you mist? Do you have a dripper?

#6 Food: Have you observed your chameleon eating? What is the chameleon's diet? Where do you get your live feeder prey? What are you feeding the feeders? Fresh veggies? Gut load? If you use a commercial gut load what is the brand? If you make your own what are the ingredients?

#7 Supplements: What type of supplement(s) do you use? Brand name(s)? How often do you use supplements?

#8 Plants & branches: What plants do you have? Are your plants alive or fake? Do the plants provide lots of coverage where the chameleon will feel safe? Can you see your chameleon most of the time or can it hide from your view?

#9 Chameleon facts: How old is the chameleon? Do you know if it is wild caught or captive born? Did you get the chameleon at a show? Breeder?

#10 Handling: Do you handle your chameleon? How often and how long? What is its reaction to you? Is the cage in a quiet part of the house or is it in a busy or noisy area? Any big stereo speakers near the cage? Is your chameleon alone in the cage? Can your chameleon see any other herps or pets from the cage?

#11 Veterinarians: Do you have a veterinarian who KNOWS chameleons?
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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Chameleon Help & Resource Info

I agree, what watering technique are you using? (if it's in lele's questions, forgive me, i didn't read them all)

Also, I was going to add, try making thembasking temperature a little bit higher. You said it he turned more green after, so maybe he's still feeling cold. (Indeed, one of my favourite effects is when chams are outside and one side of them is a dark colour, saoking up the sun, and the other is their normal clourations)

As for a cage, Is it completely open? I mean are all sides meshed? if so then you may be losing a lot of humidity, particularily if your house is at 84F.

#1 36 inch high corner tank, both walls (ones that make a right angle) are 24 inches, the other wall is a bit of an awkward size for me to measure as the tank is slightly oddly shaped. 2 sliding doors, both made of screen, which go up pretty much the entire enclosure, both made of mesh, and the lid is mesh

#2 the current basking temperature is at 94F (raised it back up again). I let it drop down to around 80-84F at night. I use 2 different thermometers (one that sticks to the side of the enclosure, and a digital one I stick in once a day, just to make sure)

#3 Not sure what brand the UVB light is, although knowing me it's probably ReptiGlo. I have it set on a timer for 12 hours lights on, 12 hours lights off, during lights off there are NO lights on in the room. I've only been using this light for about a month. Light is placed on top of the enclosure

#4 Yes, I have 2 humidity guages, 1 attached to the wall of the enclosure, and another one that I put in every so often, just to make sure the one on the wall is accurate. The absolute lowest it's ever gone is 50, the highest it's gone (right after misting) is around 90. I mist him early in the morning, and 6 hours later when I come home the humidity is still usualy between 60 and 70. I give him a light misting once the humidty goes down to 60

#5 Yes, I have observed my chameleon drinking. I mist the enclosure twice daily on average, once in the morning, once in the afternoon, Between these times I run a drip system (holds 1 gallon of water) on a slow drip, I've never timed how long this lasts, but it lasts over 4 hours, I know that for sure.

#6 I've had no problems with feeding, he's eating regularily, I purchase my crickets from a nearby, well know/respected reptile store. I feed them T-REX calcium plus, as well as fresh carrot or cereal (depending what I have at the time). At the place I purchase them they are fed fresh carrot.

#7 Rep-Cal Poshphorus-Free Calcium with VIT.D3
Rep-Cal Herptivite with beta carotene (multivitamin supplement)

I feed these once every other day in a 1:1 ratio

#8 All plants in the enclosure are real, I have a couple pathos, a hibiscus, and a very thickly leaved ficus. The ficus provides plenty of cover, and has PLENTY of space/cover for him to disappear out of view completely if he wished. (And he has done).

#9 The chameleon is a 6 month old male Veiled, captive born (I ONLY purchase captive born). It was purchased in a store which after years of good service, and good recomendations I have come to trust.

#10 I have only handled the chameleon once while I was planting a new plant in there, that took maybe 5 minutes, he didn't seem too thrilled about it, but it had to be done. The only person ever in the room is me, I do play music in my room, but I do keep it quiet. There are other reptiles in the room, there's a snake and a bearded dragon on opposit sides of the room from him, about 10ft between the chameleon and the snake, and about 13ft between the bearded dragon and him. His enclosure is raised quite a bit above the other two (not sure if that would make a difference at all). He had been a sort of brown-ish when I had bought him, there were a couple other brown-ish ones in with him and the rest were bright green. There are no other animals in the same enclosure as him.

>>#1 36 inch high corner tank, both walls (ones that make a right angle) are 24 inches, the other wall is a bit of an awkward size for me to measure as the tank is slightly oddly shaped. 2 sliding doors, both made of screen, which go up pretty much the entire enclosure, both made of mesh, and the lid is mesh

***sounds OK, except for an adult 2x2x4high is better. Is this homemade? can you add any height easily?

>>#2 the current basking temperature is at 94F (raised it back up again). I let it drop down to around 80-84F at night. I use 2 different thermometers (one that sticks to the side of the enclosure, and a digital one I stick in once a day, just to make sure)

***it needs to have more like a 20degree drop at night. Think of nature - day/night temps are typically over 10degrees. I would adjust this somehow - open a window at night, run a fan...I use a digital therm in her cage that has a 24hour max/min which is very helpful.

>>#3 Not sure what brand the UVB light is, although knowing me it's probably ReptiGlo. I have it set on a timer for 12 hours lights on, 12 hours lights off, during lights off there are NO lights on in the room. I've only been using this light for about a month. Light is placed on top of the enclosure

***I do not think that the repti-glo emits the same amount of UVB as the repti-sun. I could be wrong here. A tip: I write the date I put it into service in permanenet marker on the end of the bulb - helpful to know when to replace. Do you live somewhere that you can put him outside? (Sorry if we covered that in an earlier post). If so, get him out as often as possible just mkae sure he has a part fo the cage to get into shade.

>>#4 Yes, I have 2 humidity guages, 1 attached to the wall of the enclosure, and another one that I put in every so often, just to make sure the one on the wall is accurate. The absolute lowest it's ever gone is 50, the highest it's gone (right after misting) is around 90. I mist him early in the morning, and 6 hours later when I come home the humidity is still usualy between 60 and 70. I give him a light misting once the humidty goes down to 60

>>#5 Yes, I have observed my chameleon drinking. I mist the enclosure twice daily on average, once in the morning, once in the afternoon, Between these times I run a drip system (holds 1 gallon of water) on a slow drip, I've never timed how long this lasts, but it lasts over 4 hours, I know that for sure.

*** when you say you have observed him drinking - does it seem like enough? Does he lick leaves or sit under dripper. I still think his eyes look sunken and this can take a toll on his organs - often slowly and signs do not show up until serious damage is done. You might consider giving him a shower every other day for a while. I put a croton plant in the shower, let Luna get settled onto it, turn the shower on and aim it to the side, then I slowly move the plant under the water until she seems in a comfy place. She moves if it is too much or too litlle. I have the temp only a little cooler than I use for myself and she is fine.

>>#6 I've had no problems with feeding, he's eating regularily, I purchase my crickets from a nearby, well know/respected reptile store. I feed them T-REX calcium plus, as well as fresh carrot or cereal (depending what I have at the time). At the place I purchase them they are fed fresh carrot.

***OK, you really should consider upgrading you gutload. Carrot is fine for moisture and beta carotene (form of vitamin A) but it alone cannot give your cham the nutrients that he needs. As good as the store might be, retail crickets are kept in crowded conditions and b/c they go thru them quickly there is little time of expelling parasites and getting well gutloaded. Most over the counter gutloads have some drawbacks in that the longer they sit on a shelf the quicker the nutrients breakdown, turn rancid, get stale, etc. In my opinion you would be better off both for your cham and financially (definitely saev money!) ordering your crickets online so you have control over them for many weeks and make your own gutload or order from some place like www.cricketfood.com which makes it fresh to order. Here is a link to a make your own that also lists good fruits and veggies you should be feeding them with regularly: www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/gutload.html Keep in mind that what you feed your feeders is all the nutrition your cham gets and supplements are just that "supplements" and should not be depended on.

>>#7 Rep-Cal Poshphorus-Free Calcium with VIT.D3
>> Rep-Cal Herptivite with beta carotene (multivitamin supplement) I feed these once every other day in a 1:1 ratio

***Great products, but if he is 6 months or more I would back off on the dusting. Calcium once or twice a week and vitamins once or twice a month - again, most of his nutrition should be derived from his feeders. Once he is full adult once/week Ca/D3 and once/month Herptivite

>>#8 All plants in the enclosure are real, I have a couple pathos, a hibiscus, and a very thickly leaved ficus. The ficus provides plenty of cover, and has PLENTY of space/cover for him to disappear out of view completely if he wished. (And he has done).
***lol! sounds perfect

>>#9 The chameleon is a 6 month old male Veiled, captive born (I ONLY purchase captive born). It was purchased in a store which after years of good service, and good recomendations I have come to trust.

***even cb did you have a fecal done? ALways a good idea and is not expensive.

>>#10 I have only handled the chameleon once while I was planting a new plant in there, that took maybe 5 minutes, he didn't seem too thrilled about it, but it had to be done. The only person ever in the room is me, I do play music in my room, but I do keep it quiet.

***chams have internal ears and don't hear that well. Still best not to blast your music, but it is with their eyes that they receive most of their environmantal information.

There are other reptiles in the room, there's a snake and a bearded dragon on opposit sides of the room from him, about 10ft between the chameleon and the snake, and about 13ft between the bearded dragon and him. His enclosure is raised quite a bit above the other two (not sure if that would make a difference at all).

***I would either move or block his view of any other animal even at that distance (nice big room you have there! )

He had been a sort of brown-ish when I had bought him, there were a couple other brown-ish ones in with him and the rest were bright green. There are no other animals in the same enclosure as him.

***well, consider what I have suggested, get a fecal, block view of other animals, reassess your gutload practices and cut back on dusting. Sorry this is long but I want to tbe as thorough as possible to help you and your cham - they are such wonderful creatures - aren't they?

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0.1 Veiled - Luna
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta
1.0 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Chameleon Help & Resource Info