Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is cross posted from the milk snake forum. I am also looking into corns, and any question I ask in this post about milk snakes I am also looking to hear the answer about corns. =) Any info you have is very welcome!

Hey All,
Well I am semi-new to snakes. I've had a few. At least 3 garter snakes. 2 green snakes (1 smooth, and the other could have been either smooth or rough, i didn't even have it over night as it was very.. ah.. lively and got away) and 1 or 2 ribbon snakes. So nothing big. 3 of those snakes died and the rest escaped. I do have a LOT of experience with animals (of all sorts), I am not bragging, I am just being honest. I've always had pets, but I don't claim to know everything. I love to learn new stuff, which is why I'm here.

Anyway, a few years ago I was considering getting a milk snake (it has been off an on for at least 5 years, if not more like 7 or 8. I am 18) but didn't get one for various reasons. Now I am again considering obtaining one. I am moving to Massachussetts from Pennsylvania this August for 10 months for photography school. I can't imagine 10 months without animals, and animals are something I am planning to greatly incorporate into my photography.

So, right now the only two of my animals I can take are my two ferrets. I am hoping to not be too busy for them, but if I am I am in contact with people who can ferret sit. So, I am looking into a lower matinence animal that is still photogenic that I have always wanted. The milk snake immediately popped into my mind as smaller snakes, frogs, toads and other animals that require crickets are out. I love the look of milk snakes, and they seem to be ideal for my situation.

I am kinda rambling here, so I'll get to the point. There is a reptile show in my area in 6 weeks, so for the next six weeks I plan on researching milk snakes throughly and I thought this would be a good place to get some advice. I am interested in anything you can tell me. Care, temperment, feeding, etc. I am getting a mesh cage from a friend this saturday. I have been recommended against this by others on the Pets Hub Forum. Does anyone recommend for or against mesh? It is a nice cage. But I won't use it if it's not good. I am checking out sweater boxes tomorrow. Any information on that would be great. I would prefer not to have an aquarium as they are a bit impractical for an apartment.

Also, this will be my first reptile show and my first time buying a snake (other than the ribbon and green snake i had once) and I want to make sure I get a healthy one, and don't get conned. Any information on rep shows would be great. The name of the show I plan on attending is called the Lancaster County Reptile Show. If anyone has any information on it let me know.

I've seen pictures of "spotted mexican milks" and they are beautiful. I love color morphs. Can anyone tell me if they are better or worse than normal milks? Do they have genetic problems? Worse temperment? i don't want to sacrifice health and temperment for color. Also, how much more expensive will they be? I don't want to pay too much, but am willing to make an investment in a healthy beautiful snake. Lets say my price range is $0-$125 or so and anything above $90 will be a stretch.

I have posted a lot on the Pets Hub forums, and have many other questions and I've learned quite a bit since my first post, but this is enough to start on this forum. If you want to read my other thread on Pets hub here is the link: http://www.petshub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=291092#post291092

Also I am looking into corn snakes as they were recommended to me, so I am going to cross post this into the corn snake forum. Any info on corns and any comparison is welcome. Also, I am very interested in personal stories of owning these snakes etc. etc.

Anyway, Thanks for hanging in for my long meadering post. Any information you have would be great!
Thanks Again!
- Twix
My Pets Hub Thread

n/p

It is in the milk snake forum as I said at the beginning of my post. I am looking into corns as well, anything I said about milks in that post I want to know about corns. I also want comparison information between the two species. I just didn't have the time to type up a whole new post for this forum. So if you have any info on Corns I'd love to hear!
- Twixy

Twixy-

I advise you to read a lot on these forums, especially any threads labelled "help I just bought a snake on impulse" etc LOL...there are many very kind, patient and helpful people here.

You are asking lots of good questions- in advance of getting an animal- very wise. There are too many q's to really answer but a few points to make:

Temperature and Humidity are important in this- and mesh is bad at keeping either in, poor as well at keeping snake secure and feeling secure, ie from other inquisitive pets.

Proper temps are needed so a snake will be active and have some extra warmth to help digest. Often this is accomplished with an undertank heating pad on one end- the dial thermometers can be laid on the substrate to get the real temp the snake will experience, not stuck to the side above the snake's usual haunts. I advise not sticking the heating pad on the tank(some versions you don't have to at all) until you're sure you've got it right- often pads are too hot, even with a dimmer. Bigger is not better! Lifting the tank on crossboards will let some heat out.

Humidity- for most beginner-type snakes this is mostly a shedding issue, a large surface area water bowl, partially covering the mesh top of an aquarium-type setup with anything waterproof, and occasional misting are soem tricks to keep the humidity up- when you see your snake start to get "blue" step up the misting and maybe tuck a moist paper towel into it's hide for a few days, no problems.

Corns(which are rat snakes)as well as kings and milks usually manage to stay healthy even if conditions vary a bit from optimum- strive for high standards and you will fall within their tolerance range.

Corns, milks, kings etc generally tolerate lots of handling, and are substantial in size at maturity. Corns in particular are very easy, have long captive bred lineages and come in a great variety of morphs.

Some kings/milks are more particular about specific habitat/food, others are very easy, see which ones are most common on the forums and what problems folks have... you really can't go wrong starting with a calm, healthy, well-feeding baby corn snake of any morph, and one's just like that are commonly available.

Feeding is the other area to investigate- choosing between f/t (many advantages, ease of storage, no danger to snake, etc) and live (well, some snakes never learn to eat f/t and some folks like to see their snakes in action). Feeding in a separate enclosure is one option. Putting the prey item in the feeding enc. before the snake, means the snake will never eat substrate accidentally or learn to associate movement towards it (ie your hand reaching to pick it up) with prey items.

Did you ever figure out why your other snakes died? Wrong temps, wrong food, wild caught specimens that didn't ever eat? This is an important element to figure out and overcome before getting more animals...

BTW great idea to share your interest and help educate- almost all kids love snakes- and kids are the best teachers of grown-ups around!

Good luck- please post pics of your new pets and ask lots of questions on these forums!

I would reccomend getting a book on the species you want I would probably say the care of the 2 species is quite similar I'ts basically depending on you, I would just do my homework.

Derek

Good Luck

Second that opinion- and Kathy and Bill Love (blatant plug) have just updated their comprehensive Corn Snake Manual-

You were asking about aquarium vs plastic, too- there are very nice options in both out now, herpetariums that are fitted with a sliding screen top, avail in a 10 gal, which would hold your baby snake a year or more, and larger...

The plastic tubs with the locking handles are also good, just make holes in the side, they hold humidity and heat VERY well, in fact circulation becomes the issue...

And there are versions of the classic Kritter Keeper out now for snakes- they are lower, with large, locking access ports, and stackable - the brown topped ones by Lee, I mean.

Good luck

Hi,
Thanks Sooooo much for all the good advice. Especially about a feeding enclosure. That is a good idea. Question though, will that stress a new snake? I was told to let it be for a week, feed it, then let it be for another week before handling. Is this correct? Will putting it in a different box be okay to do? Also, I was planning on having a smaller box for travel, can this double for feeding or would the snake know he was in his feeding box and get too excited?

Also, about my older snakes. I had 2 die. My first one, and I think my 2nd or third one. The rest escaped because they were little devils and I guess they found a way out of the lids I thought were secure. Actually.. here's the story of them all

Elfy (garter snake). okay i miss this snake terribly he was the best. My first snake. I must have been... 8? i had been looking for a snake and i got lucky one day and walked by one on a gravel road. This snake was injured. had some kind of head and neck injury. It's tongue stuck out. Every night for i dunno how long i dipped it's tongue in water and then onto a paper towel. Eventually he sucked it back into his mouth. he was always a good eater. He had a really bad habit tho. Everynight around 11 pm he would get out of his cage. My dad would hear him thump down to the floor. Once retrieve he would stay in the cage until the next night. Well one day my dad got tired of it and put masking tape aorund the lid. BIG mistake. we found elfy hanging from the tape in the morning. We cut him out and got it off, but he died a few weeks later. No more masking tape!

The next one i had, was a few years later, and was a smooth green snake from the pet store. This was a very docile snake, but for the wrong reasons (so I found out) Grease Lightning was his name. He would curl around my fingers or toes for hours on end while i read or was on the computer. Then, he developed black spots. Most likely an internal parasite. I (think, tho it was quite a few years ago so i don't remember exactly) that i contacted a vet and he said to treat him for mites and put some oil on him to kill the mights etc. I did, but unfortunately he died. I have a feeling he was wild caught.

I then had a rough green that we caught in my backyard. my aunt and i caught him. He was VERY lively and managed to escape and go out the front door (we think) before we could house him or anything. But that was okay by me as he wasn't very friendly.

I had a ribbon snake, that escaped, even though we secured the lid. Don't know how that happened.

All of those snakes were within 3 or 4 years of each other. I was between the ages of 8 and 12 I'm pretty sure.

Then years later there was Dani, had a good cage etc ate well. Loved baby toads. I was in the process of moving at the time and when i went back to the old house for a weekend i had to leave her at the new house, she wasn't there when i came back.

Yea, that's the story of my snakes. Also the reason I want a bigger snake as they can't get out of such tiny holes. I learned a lot from those little snakes, and don't think I'll ever use aquariums for snakes again!!!

Anyway, Thanks again for the information it was great!
- Jules

Sounds like you have had a bunch of Houdini's!

The Herpatariums- they are an aquarium with a built in channel and sliding screen top, with a slot for a lock or whatever- they are pretty escape proof.

Hmmm, I have never been self-disciplined enough to leave a new snake alone! In the beginning I do limit handling to one short session a day, but I try to remember to do that with most new snakes so they get used to being held.

Most baby snakes will do fine eating in a deli cup like they come in- some are shy and wait until you turn your back, some you have to wiggle the f/t mousie a little with tongs or tweezers...a few will only take live at first.

Some breeds are notoriously picky eaters, my gray banded king went 6 or 8 weeks or something without eating when I got it- very nerve-wracking.

A few I have had to start feeding in their enclosure until eating greedily, then switch to second enclosure. When they are happy and healthy and feel pretty secure they will eat with gusto anywhere.

Especially corns- they eat very well in general.

For carrying around a deli cup or Kritter Keeper or whatever is appropriate- just be careful not to set it in the sun!!! I inadvertantly broiled an anole in about ten minutes in a clear plastic Kritter Keeper once, poor thing RIP.

Can you tell I'm partial to corns as a first snake?
Here's a pic of our newest, a ghost corn:

Hi,
LOL the poor anole! Whoops!!!

Yes, I actually named my ribbon snake Houdini now that you mention it lol!

I have never been self disciplined at not holding animals either. I'll do my best but I'll probably hold it once a day or every other day. My best friend is going to be here for the first week, we'll be really busy most days so that should help but yea. I am guessing that you haven't killed any of your snakes by holding them a little! lol.

I don't plan on getting a baby. I'd like a two year old. Still young, but big. I am into wrapping snakes around my arms heh, and I am planning on photoing it alot and need a bigger snake for photos. So hopefully I'll find a docile adult. I am also leaning more towards a corn. Maybe a milk will be my second snake. I like sunglows, motley sunglows, and okeetee corns a lot. Does anybody know the show price of those morphs?

Good Idea about waiting before switching feeding enclosures. I like that idea.

Well anyway, I am incredibly tired and have to get up early, so I will catch you all later. I probably won't be around tomorrow, but any replies or information is welcome.

Thank you very much for all the info so far!
- Jules
ps. your snake is very cute!!