Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Someone commented on this before-

I use dirt as substrate with these small wildcaught snakes/slamanders etc mostly so they feel at home. Such a set-up also requires very little maintenance, as pillbugs and small millipedes and worms and such in the soil break down everything pretty well- I might scoop out a jumbo dropping but I leave the rest or simply bury it a little.

The big drawback is that it does provide extra vectors for parasite life cycles... and you have to manage the moisture level which is harder with "wild" dirt than a nice potting/terrarium mix.

Too wet and the soil can sour or mildew, the snake may get blisters, too dry the worms/bio load in the soil will die out, back and forth, very much no good.

Like with houseplants, most native herps can adapt to any particular reasonable set of conditions but swings from arid to humid, famine to feast, will stress any animal!

Does anyone else have pros or cons of natural substrate set-ups?

Hi,

I have used dirt collected from outdoors numerous times, and am happy to say that I have never had any problems with it. I have a Brahminy blind snake, and natural soils are almost required for this species. The snake can ONLY eat mites, teeny-tiny ants and ant eggs, hatchling pill bugs and centipedes etc. My blind snake is in a small "Plexiglass tower" with a layer of pea gravel on the bottom, topped with natural soil, teeming with life. It also has a dime, a small plant, and one of those miniature flowerpots for it to hide in.
Redback and slimy salamanders usually eat mites, which can be discovered crawling around in rotting logs and compost soil. Bacteria is not a concern to me, because for the most part, whatever is living in the natural soil collected for your animal, would frequently encounter that animal in the wild.
Also, as you stated before, it helps the little herpetiles "feel at home." However, if you are keeping an animal that eats small rodents, fish etc., that is not very nervous, then I would highly recommend using potting soil or reptile vivarium planting mix.
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DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
1.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.1 scarlet kingsnakes
0.0.1 scarlet snake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
1.1 Southern ringneck snakes
0.0.1 night snake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.1 Pine woods snake
1.0 rough earth snake
0.1 (parthenogenic) Brahminy blind snake
0.1 Northern brown snake
1.1 Eastern worm snakes

Wouldnt you have to in time completely change the soil due to ammonia?

Hello,

Yes, ammonia can be a problem. I own some African giant black millipedes, and usually clean their substrate about once or twice a year. Of course, the millipedes are vegetarians, so their feces probably reacts with the soil easier, turning it into some fine compost. Everyone, how often do you change natural soils in vaivaria, yearly?
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DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
1.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.1 scarlet kingsnakes
0.0.1 scarlet snake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
1.1 Southern ringneck snakes
0.0.1 night snake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.1 Pine woods snake
1.0 rough earth snake
0.1 (parthenogenic) Brahminy blind snake
0.1 Northern brown snake

I don't change it, I consider a tank of dirt much like a tank of water there is a natural nitrification cycle that takes place as long as it is well airated and drained. My solution is to create a two inch gap at the the bottom with plastic egg crate and screen for optimum drainage. I also have a computer fan that forces air through this gap via a pvc pipe and hence through the soil, basically a dirt undergravel filter.

Hi,

I have heard about your worm lizard setup several times, and it sounds like it is very interesting. I have considered it for use with caecilians several times. It would be a GREAT help if you could perhaps post some pictures of the arrangement either on this forum, or in the photo gallery.
This summer, I will be doing lots of work with the fossorials. I have ordered a group of both Western and Midwestern worm snakes, and am rebuilding a colony of fascinating little Brahminy blind snakes. I hope to obtain about six. The subterranean world and it's biological cycles fascinates me.

P.S. Have you ever worked with Ichthyophis? Thanks!
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DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
1.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.1 scarlet kingsnakes
0.0.1 scarlet snake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
1.1 Southern ringneck snakes
0.0.1 night snake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.1 Pine woods snake
1.0 rough earth snake
0.1 (parthenogenic) Brahminy blind snake
0.1 Northern brown snake

Ichthyophis kohtaensis some years back, I would certainly try them again, do you have source? I will let you know when I have some pics posted, thanks.

Hi,

Yes, I would love to seee those pictures. Unfortunately, I do not have a source for Ichthyophis. It is amazing that you have kept them. I simply asked, because I love caecilians, and Ichthyophis is my favorite. I have maintained T. natans, and a pair of Dermophis mexicanus in natural vivaria, but have had no luck finding additional species.
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DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
1.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.1 scarlet kingsnakes
0.0.1 scarlet snake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
1.1 Southern ringneck snakes
0.0.1 night snake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.1 Pine woods snake
1.0 rough earth snake
0.1 (parthenogenic) Brahminy blind snake
0.1 Northern brown snake

Of all the snakes you keep whats the most active ? I am going to guess the rat snake and whats your most inactive,well you dont see it?
I love scarlet kings find their colors great but have heard very very secretive more so than most small snakes.
Thanks.

Hello,

In answer to your question...

Most active snake in my collection: Sonoran gopher snake

Least active snake in my collection: Kenyan sand boa- By far!

The scarlet kings stay under their rocks during the day, but at night, I commonly turn on the light to find both entwined, stretched out in the open. Thet glow like banded neon necklaces, but do not sit still for very long. Nonetheless, a great species to observe!
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DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
1.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.1 scarlet kingsnakes
0.0.1 scarlet snake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
1.1 Southern ringneck snakes
0.0.1 night snake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.1 Pine woods snake
1.0 rough earth snake
0.1 (parthenogenic) Brahminy blind snake
0.1 Northern brown snake

Thanks for the info.I am not suprised about the sand boa as my friend has one and all you see is sand in the tank perhaps his little head.
Thanks