Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone I am new to this forum and had a couple questions . A freind of mine has a melanistic thayeri that he wants to sell me how common are they? and are they always jet black? and also what is the going rate for an adult male? and what will you get when you breed this male to a reg female its simple recessive right? Thanks again Paul

my understanding is that melanism is a simple recessive gene. i bought mine from mark bell last year at the mid atlantic show for $40. good luck. Rin

Rin,
When you hold your Melanistic Thayeri up to a flourescent light do you see any milksnake phase pattern?
The only ones that I have seen in person do, in fact have a remnant pattern and the ones I have seen have all been milksnake phase thayeri that were melanistic.
And yes the melanistic trait is a simple recessive gene.
I think it would be great to breed a pair of het for melanistic thayeri just to add the melanistic variability to the already variable clutches thayeri produce.
John Lassiter

yes, john. you are right. when i hold mine to the light you can see the faint milksnake pattern. she is still small so it will be a year or two until i can try to breed her.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed this?
Are there any melanistic "leonis" phase thayeri? Or are they all melanistic milksnake phase?
Mike K.? Are the melanistics you have seen all have the remnant pattern of a milksnake phase? I anticipate you (Mike) having some het for melanistics for a future breeding project 3 or so years down the road......
Damn....Isn't this addicting?......LOL
John Lassiter

Imagine some black ones in the mix with these.....Hmmmmm

Hey John,

As we talked about in an earlier e-mail conversation, I also have not seen a leonis phase melanistic. They have all had the milksnake phase pattern lying beneath the melanism. But then, I have personally only taken a close look at about a half dozen melanistics, both male and female. Interesting question isn't it John... can melanism appear in leonis phase thayeri? Maybe someone who knows will answer the question for us.

I have had in my possesion only 2 females, one of which is still here as you know. And boy, do I ever have plans for her! I have the very same dream of seeing a beautiful melanistic or two eventually hatch out of a nice clutch, and what a sight it would be. I can definitely imagine a nice one mixed in there with that really nice clutch you show. Kind of a void there don't you agree? Just seems to be something important missing there. I would like to see a lot more of them eventually, and hopefully with guys like us talking about them more often, we can all ignite a little more interest and effort towards bringing them back a little stronger. Until you see a nice mature melanistic thayeri in front of you, you really can't appreciate how beautiful they really are.

Addicting you say?!! No way. I'm in total control! lol!

Thayeri on the brain? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!!

Here is my '02 female. Hard to imagine you can actually see her milksnake pattern beneath her intense melanism.....

Thanks for the reply Mike.....
I wonder myself if anyone will chime in here and answer the question of leonis phase melanistics. Maybe most people just thinkt they are pure black and have not looked at them close enough.....
Great picture as well Mike.
Keep us posted on your projects..

Oh yeah....The Mountainking Trio is on the way......Pics will be posted as soon as they arrive.....LOL
John Lassiter

"Oh yeah....The Mountainking Trio is on the way......Pics will be posted as soon as they arrive....."

I really can't wait to see them John, I know how excited you must be!

Another photo of the '02 melanistic female.....

The first time I got into Thayeri, in the mid 1990's, I had a melanistic leonis phase female. All her siblings were a very light colored buckskin (almost white) leonis phase. You could clearly see the pattern in the right light (at the right angle). It wasn't that hard to see. I have always thought "Black Pearl" best described their color rather than black. I sold all of my Colubrids in the late 90's and didn't get back into any for a few years. Due to a lack of room, I have not added any melanistic Thayeri to the collection. Their subtle beauty is unequalled in any other black snake in my opinion.

Thanks for your reply Rick....
It is good to hear that they are in fact out there. I have yet to see one myself though.
I am looking forward to working with some as soon as I can find what I am looking for (1.1 leonis phase that are het for melanistic).
John Lassiter

How do you know for sure they are het for melanistic? I know i have 2 04's both males that the father was melanistic! I also agree, i would love to add a melanistic to my collection! Maybe this will be the year.
Jim

Good news to hear Rick, thank you. I actually would have thought it to be very strange if someone were to tell us that melanistic leonis were so much a rarity that they weren't known to exist, or be possible.

"Their subtle beauty is unequalled in any other black snake in my opinion."

I whole-heartedly agree. And it is still hard to believe that many breeders seem to have lost interest and we don't see more of these superb melanistics than we do. I have an interest in helping to change that, and it sounds like John is interested as well which is great news to me. Now all we need is a little good luck on our side.

Same '02 female.....

Good luck to both of you. The melanistic leonis phase was very beautiful. Now you have all peaked my curiosity and I will be checking any melanistic Thayeri I see, to see if it is Leonis phase.

Thank you Rick. If luck is granted this year, I just might see a melanistic leonis. This female I have been showing was bred this year, her first year, with a stunning white leonis male produced by Dan Varmilya. I found it interesting that you mentioned most of the melanistic leonis you have seen in the past had sibs that were very light buckskin, almost white. Coincedence, and I seriously doubt this, but maybe there is something to that?!!

I am glad your interest has been sparked. If you can remember, be sure to let me know what you discover when you run across any melanistic leonis.

BTW... that apricot milksnake phase '04 male I bought from you is doing great. He is in my son's collection and is a terrific little guy, eats like a champion, is growing very well and looking mighty fine!

BTW... that apricot milksnake phase '04 male I bought from you is doing great. He is in my son's collection and is a terrific little guy, eats like a champion, is growing very well and looking mighty fine!

Glad to hear he is doing so well, the two I cooled this year are eating anything offered now too. There were three really nice Milksnake phase males out of the babies. He should produce some nice youngsters in a couple years (his mom double clutched at two years).

Mike, do you have a pic of him? Just curious to see what he looks like now.

Rick... I'm sorry I don't have a recent pic of him. He is at my son's place in his collection, he was a birthday gift. He is terrific though, never turns his nose up at a meal and is as gentle as a can be. His saddles are the most beautiful red, he is gonna be quite handsome!

My son got me started in all this a number of years ago when he was a teenager. He just purchased his first home, complete with an extra room for his kingsnakes.