Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Permission to cross post was granted by Ms. Griffin. She can also be reached at ChristyG@peta.org

I know a lot of people don't like PETA, but this isn't about PETA. It's about Petco and the fact that they are still selling wild-caught reptiles, including Greek and Russian tortoises. At the Petco in Timonium, they are mixing their Russian tortoises with a semi-aquatic Asian turtle - a recipe for disaster.

Katrina

Dear Activist,

We urgently need your help at a local protest in pushing PETCO to stop selling animals. As you may know, PETA recently kicked off a campaign against PETCO based on the countless complaints we've received from PETCO customers and employees on the inhumane treatment of animals at PETCO stores across the country. Employees at PETCO stores are so poorly trained that baby birds have starved to death, other animals have been cannibalized by cage mates as a result of stressful, overcrowded conditions, and managers have ordered employees to throw sick and injured animals into freezers to die.

Please join us from 2 to 3:30 p.m. on Sunday, July 13 at 8640
Pulaski Hwy. We'll be providing posters and leaflets, so please just bring yourselves, your friends, family, and anyone else you can find. Please e-mail or call me as soon as possible if you can attend. Just one or two hours out of your day will make such a tremendous difference in sending the message to PETCO that the cruelty that it inflicts on animals will not be tolerated. Please check out PETCOCruelty.com to learn more about the campaign. Thank you and we hope to see you there!

For the animals,

Christy Griffin
Campaign Assistant
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
757-622-7382, extension 1650
PETCOCruelty.com

They don't need a protest, they need some educational materials handed to their employees. As for the Wild caught Russian and Greek tortoises, until these animals are produced in large numbers for the pet trade, the wild is the only place you can get them. This will cease when they are produced in large numbers in the future from those same wild caught individuals that you want to protest. Put your energies into care sheets and hand them out to the employees. They'll read them, and change their husbandry techniques. Knowledge has the power to change the behavior of the employees. Protest will do nothing but cause them to ignore any advice you may want to provide.

associating with PETA is poorly advised.
PETA doesn't want ANYONE to keep ANYTHING. When they are finished using you they will attempt to take YOUR animals too.
Although Petco does have a terrible reputation, what they really need is education.
Petco doesn't want to lose tortoises that they have paid for or customers that are dissatisfied. While management at the local level probably is terrible, bringing attention to corporate officials will do more good.
Like teepee says, care sheets and constant reminders will do more good for the tortoises right now.

Oh, please. I've written Don Cowan and the CEO myself, and Mr. Cowan seems to think that iguanas are perfectly fine pets for the average person. If I hand out care sheets to the store near me, what happens if I move? What about the store you and I can't get to? I'm sure we've all seen reptiles, rodents with respiratory infections, and under-age ferrets in the stores, it can't just be a problem with individual stores. The STORES HAVE CARE SHEETS ALREADY. Their care sheets are actually rather good. They don't follow the ones they have now! Why should the store profit from my hard work? Why do I have to be the one to point out that thier iguanas have mites, or that they have an emaciated leopard gecko, because the employees and manager can't tell the difference between a healthy one and a sick one?

Katrina

Underage ferrets? I raised ferrets before, and if you do not remove them at a specific time, mom eats them. They must be removed when quite young. They are neutered at 5 weeks and sold by 6 weeks. As for parasites on reptiles, you need to go further back to the supplier, not the retailer.

But the retailer needs to have standards when choosing suppliers, don't they? If you have igs coming from a supplier with mites, and tortoises coming in with parasites, baby ball pythons with ticks, and rats arriving with respiratory infections, shouldn't you change suppliers? Since the balls are arriving with ticks (not all stores, but I have seen them in two stores), I assume they are imported from Africa, and not domestic CB.

Katrina

You just can't choose a supplier. Suppliers usually have their own territories. In your area, you have a choice of maybe up to 4 suppliers. Some locations only have one or two. Suppliers are regulated by the states. If a supplier is out of the area, they are not approved by the state and therefore cannot supply to you. They get the permission to carry certain animals, by the state, and are issued importation permits for such animals. Its government controlled. Retailers have little choice in the type of animal they are offered. Many animals are contaminated at the government operated quarantine facilities.

The tick covered baby balls are most likely captive hatched on a farm. Better than wild caught, not as good as captive bred. Wild caught is still a possibility though.

Yet another good reason to encourage stores to sell only captive bred.

Katrina

Posted by: teepee at Sun Jul 13 13:18:14 2003

Retailers have little choice in the type of animal they are offered. Many animals are contaminated at the government operated quarantine facilities.

Oh, please. I've written Don Cowan and the CEO myself, and Mr. Cowan seems to think that iguanas are perfectly fine pets for the average person. If I hand out care sheets to the store near me, what happens if I move? What about the store you and I can't get to? I'm sure we've all seen reptiles, rodents with respiratory infections, and under-age ferrets in the stores, it can't just be a problem with individual stores. The STORES HAVE CARE SHEETS ALREADY. Their care sheets are actually rather good. They don't follow the ones they have now! Why should the store profit from my hard work? Why do I have to be the one to point out that thier iguanas have mites, or that they have an emaciated leopard gecko, because the employees and manager can't tell the difference between a healthy one and a sick one?

Katrina

I have never been to a PETCO and I don't think they are in south Florida. From your discription they DO sound horrible.
Still, PETA has an agenda and their ultimate goal is there are NO CAPTIVE ANIMALS. Period.

I don't blame you for wanting to protest PETCO if they are that stupid but PETA scares me to death.

If you play with fire, you're going to get burnt. By the way, the lizards are already sick and emaciated when they get to Petco. Petco is wrong for buying them, but the rest of the supply chain could use some work. But the last thing we need is more laws... we just need speak with our money.

"speak with our money"

Thats exactly it. Ive always found (and I am sure others have as well) that pet stores (especially chains) dont even have good prices, let alone quality animals. I would drive 45 minutes to buy dart frogs for 15-20 cheaper than in the pet store...most people would. Private breeders have better quality and better prices. What happens to them when their animals get emaciated or get respritory infections or fungus? They lose a significant investment....they dont just lose an animal. Support the people that deserve it. That is how change is brought. When people realize that its bad to patronize a business that so poorly takes care of its animals (as said before, most are probably already sick when received), other routes will be sought. just my 2 cents.

That's exaclty what the protest is trying to do. Not change or make more laws, but to get the store to stop selling live animals if possible, and to definately educate the public. I never said I wanted more laws.

As for PETA and HSUS, I will work with or against anyone when it comes to helping the animals - some days I'm working with them, another day I'm testifying against them at the state legislature.

Katrina

In your above post you said, in part that you wanted "the pet store to stop selling live animals"
What would you prefer a PET STORE to sell????????

You just added fuel to those who believe that your real intent is
NO ANIMALS IN CAPTIVITY. Which is PETA's agenda.

Look, if you are searching for perfection in pet stores you are not going to find it. And all of those problems that you mentioned (parasites, etc) can be found in all sectors of the reptile trade. That doesn't mean it should be banned.
The reptile industry has come a very long way from where it was only a decade or two ago. Captive reproduction of endangered herps is becoming more and more common. Things are much better than before but you are correct when you say that problems still exist. The problem with PETA associated programs is that it CAN and HAS lead to bans. Bad press makes the public overreact to something they may really know little about.
But that is what you want isn't it.

I never mentioned laws or banning anything in my posts. I would just like Petco to take a lead in the industry, which they could do. Too many of their stores have husbandry issues. Petco could set the standard as a national chain, yet for the most part they do not. That is the reason behind the protest.

Katrina

You know, in the future I intend to buy any reptiles the same way I'd buy a dog - by going straight to the breeder and asking to see at least the female that produced the puppies. Right now, though, I don't buy reptiles or dogs, I adopt them.

Would it be so hard for a national chain to only sell supplies, or to at least allow their stores to buy from quality, local breeders, rather than from warehouse dealers?

Katrina

The reason why stores buy from those suppliers is because if they where to go out and buy these animals from good quality breeders they would have to buy them at much higher prices and then they wouldnt be able to mark them up to the prices they need to make a profit. When they buy form these suppliers then they can get large quanities for alot cheaper prices then they mark them up and make a profit,

I live in south florida also i hear they are builing one down here but im not exactly sure where but i was in a petco in boston and they had leos with bearded dragons. From what i hear and what i saw there they have no idea of what there doing!

Um, I don't think the average person purchasing a $40 wild-caught Russian from Petco for their child is going to be the one producing captvie off-spring for the rest of us. I received an e-mail recently from a woman that did just that. The employees told her it was captive bred. She was quite angry to find it was not, and that it had intestinal parasites as well. If we protest, it gets publicity, which is another way to educate. She would not have purchased that tortoise if she had known it was WC. If the public starts demanding captive bred, and refuses to buy wild-caught for pets (wild-caught should be for breeding projects, not a pet for the average consumer), then the stores will reply to the demand.

If you want a wild-caught adult for a breeding project, go directly to an importer or broker, not a pet store.

Katrina

Posted by: teepee at Sat Jul 12 07:37:15 2003
They don't need a protest, they need some educational materials handed to their employees. As for the Wild caught Russian and Greek tortoises, until these animals are produced in large numbers for the pet trade, the wild is the only place you can get them. This will cease when they are produced in large numbers in the future from those same wild caught individuals that you want to protest. Put your energies into care sheets and hand them out to the employees. They'll read them, and change their husbandry techniques. Knowledge has the power to change the behavior of the employees. Protest will do nothing but cause them to ignore any advice you may want to provide.

"If you want a wild-caught adult for a breeding project, go directly to an importer or broker, not a pet store"

I've seen importers and brokers that take far less care of their animals than some pet stores. This is another example of painting every pet store with the same brush. Very few brokers and importers take the time to acclimate their animals properly. Its in and out as fast as possible to minimize loss and maximize profits. I agree, many pet stores are the same way, but my point is that you don't alway get better animals by moving up the supply chain.

Steve Schindler

Protests lead to total bans on reptiles. In my town, the town council decided to ban all reptiles within the city limits, using the same crap that Peta is using to harass the pet industry. I was the only person to fight it. I won. I got front page headlines, and the ordinance was blocked. If you don't like the pet industry, don't buy a pet.
Intestinal parasites in your pet---Oh my god---run for the hills. You'd be shocked to know that the average human carries intestinal parasites also. Maybe not all the time, but at some point in your life, you will. Worms, bacteria, flagellates etc, not to mention the head lice, body lice, crab lice, mites etc crawling on some of us. All animals including us, battle the nasty parasites at some point. Remember that PETA does not want anything captive bred. They want all animals including dogs returned to the wild. One final thought, how many more years do you think there will be a "wild".

Intestinal parasites, hmmm, well what if your reptile showed up with crypto? Some leopard geckos from Petco have showed up with it.

And, I'm not a PETA supporter, but I know they don't want pets RETURNED to the wild. They want the end of breeding pets.

I don't think that protesting the inhumane care of animals at a store is going to lead to banning of pets. Now having a wholesaler's warehouse investigated and finding hundreds of sick and dying reptiles inside, that might get pet reptiles banned. It happened recently in Silver Spring, MD. If we don't encourage stores to care for these animals properly, and that includes being responsible for where the animals come from on a wholesale level, then our hobby will be in more trouble than it is now.

Katrina

Posted by: teepee at Sun Jul 13 00:36:05 2003

Protests lead to total bans on reptiles. In my town, the town council decided to ban all reptiles within the city limits, using the same crap that Peta is using to harass the pet industry. I was the only person to fight it. I won. I got front page headlines, and the ordinance was blocked. If you don't like the pet industry, don't buy a pet.
Intestinal parasites in your pet---Oh my god---run for the hills. You'd be shocked to know that the average human carries intestinal parasites also. Maybe not all the time, but at some point in your life, you will. Worms, bacteria, flagellates etc, not to mention the head lice, body lice, crab lice, mites etc crawling on some of us. All animals including us, battle the nasty parasites at some point. Remember that PETA does not want anything captive bred. They want all animals including dogs returned to the wild. One final thought, how many more years do you think there will be a "wild".