Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As you may remember i adopted a sick BTS a few months back. He had a severe eye infection and respitory infection. The good news is since then the eyes have cleared up. But the problem is with the respitory....

When i first got him he had been on Baytril for several weeks and that didn't do anything. I took him into my clinic and we took a culture and sensitivity and sent it out. While we were waiting for the results we started him on injectable ceftazadime(sp?). Well, a week or so later the lab called and said their was an insufficient amount of culture and they saw no growth so we would have to redo it. We took another culture and sent it out again, in the meantime we continued the ceftazadime. Two weeks later the results were in showing that the bacteria was indeed resistant to ceftazadime. We switched to oral trimetheprine sulfa(sp?). I was wary of using the sulfa, especially since it was oral and i have experienced little sucess with oral antibiotics on reptiles in the past. Sure enough, it seems to have done nothing. We called around looking for a distributor that carried an injectable form and yesterday i found one and ordered some...it should be here within a few days. In the meantime i have stopped using the oral antibiotics.

So here is the problem: Throughout at this he has always been a great eater, which i saw as very promising. Then last week he stopped eating, i have tried tempting him with all of his favorite foods and he will not touch them. Im worried that the lengthy period of constant anti-biotics is catching up with him. In theory since the injectable we just ordered should be efficient at wiping out the infection he should be ok once he has had that, but i am worried about what will happen if he refuses to eat for much longer. I was thinking about trying to tube feed him either some bene-bac or yogurt with live culture. Do you think this will be a good idea? if not, does anyone have any idea's for my poor BTS? He has been such a trooper through all this and i just want to see him get better....

TIA

~Mim
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with your skink and getting the correct antibiotic for this infection.
I doubt this is necessary, but you have identified that this animal does have a chronic respiratory illness, right? Is it possible that the symptoms (I don't think you mentioned symptoms in your post)are related to the congestion, inflammation, and scarring of a now cured infection? Just something to consider before moving on.

Of importance is keeping accurate weights (daily or every other day) with a gram scale to monitor your lizard's mass. A loss greater than 10% is cause for intervention if previously a good weight. Consult with your veterinarian about tube feeding, and if it either stresses your skink too much, or looks to have to be done for a longer period of time, and esophagostomy tube should be placed. This is basically a surgically placed stomach tube that allows feeding without stress. Most reptiles handle it rather well.

It "almost" goes without saying that without superbly awesome husbandry, any medical treatment will have trouble working. Reassess your husbandry and make sure it is top notch and that it's not just enough to "get by".

Did I answer all of your questions? I hope I have been some help
Ian

Thanks for your answers. I work at a vet clinic (as a tech) that treats reptiles so i have access to any vet care i need. The vets their have established that it is a respitory infection, although possibly if the new anti-biotics don't work we may look into chronic issues. If it is chronic what are hsi treatment options?

His symptoms were: Sneezing, wheezing and general labored breathing. And bubbling at the mouth. The sneezing and wheezing has gone away almost completely and he is now only bubbling. I have the results of the culture at work in his file, would it help you to know the specific bacteria they found to be causing the problem?

As far as his husbandry he is in a 65gallon reptarium. He is on newspaper (a layer of flat newspaper on the bottoma nd shredded and crumpled paper on top for him to burrow in) because he had eye issues and needed to be kept on something that wouldn't irritate his eyes. He was being fed a variety of feeder insects and fruits and veggies, although i will admit he wasn't keen on the veggies and often had to be tricked into eating them. He has s hot spot of 97degrees, and ambient temps of 80-85degrees.

One of the vets suggested giving him a couple of weeks of a break from any antibiotics to build up some good bacteria and help his stomach and hopefully get him eating again. Does this sound like a good idea?
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

He gets calcium supplements two times a week and a multivitimin once a week. Where is the best place to get a good scale that will weigh in grams but can weigh high enough amounts to weigh him? I dont want to stress him out by bringing him to work every day for weight checks...thanks
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

Your temps are perfect. I personally don't like Reptariums though because they are open and can be so drafty, especially for a sick animal. I would also lose the newspapers. The ink of newspaper never drys, and it can be known to cause different problems. There are varying opinions on that, but most with experience will agree.

Good luck! Check out the bts.net forum, there's a couple RI threads going on.

I have seen this in other rescues (BTS), with the eyes included and crusty lips and sneezing. One such animal I was about to give up on (after spending hundreds of dollars with the vet!), but a friend took him and basically brought him back to a degree of health. What we noticed with this animal is that his symptoms return if he is put on mulch, or brought outside! So we began to think it could be an allergic reaction. I would definately give him a break from all drugs and use a probiotic to help strengthen his natural defenses. I have been successful in using a needle-less syringe, and mixing the probiotic with baby-food, and by rubbing the sides of his mouth from front to back they will eventually open up. Then I slip in the syringe and slowly administer the baby food mixture. This is less traumatic for the animal, and if they like the taste of the baby food they don't ususally fight so hard.
By the way, 2 years later the above animal is still alive and eating well, though he still gets crusty lips!
Hope this helps some!
Beth

Thanks a lot guys.

I have the reptarium partially covered by a towel to minimize draft, but i also keep my house at an ambient temp of 70degree's or above because of my reptiles so i dont think (or at least i hope) he isn't getting any drafts. He is also away from any windows or doors.

Would shredded paper towels work better than newspaper? I was under the impression newspapers used vegtable dyes now and were animal safe, but if not i definatley want to change, what would be a better alternative?

I got his new anti-biotic in yesterday but i think im going to give him at least a week and i will give him daily doses of baby food and pro-biotic to try and get him feeling up to par and eating again before starting more anti-biotic therapy.

Any more suggestions?

Thanks
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

What do you recomend for a pro-biotic?

i have heard some yogurt contains good actuive cultures, will this help? What about bene-bac, is that helpfull or just a rip-off that the pet stores will try to sell you?

Thanks
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

Benebac is a good product! Before I bought that I used a probiotic from the health food store.
Hope it goes well!
Beth

Thanks. He actually ate for the first time in ages yesterday, hehad some chicken flavored baby food. I am going to go witht he bene-bac and see what i can do...
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

Either them or weight-loss pills

Seriously though, probiotics won't hurt, but there are some serious questions to consider. I brought this info up in the herp health forum, but it's rather old, and I don't know if it's searchable. If so, then search probiotics.

A summary
1)No government regulations. The types, and amounts of bacteria in the products are not always correctly labeled. Some cultures have turned up no bacteria, others grew possibly pathenogenic bacteria.
2)Even if the proper bacteria is available, the chances of it passing the stomach in enough numbers to succussfully find a niche in the intestines and colonize is minimal.

A gastrointestinal specialist vet said that if any benefit were to come from probiotics, it would be to give them 4-6 times daily, and the benefits would stop soon after treatments ceased.

To move on, I'm assuming that the culture done also included a sensitivity? If the symptoms are minimal and not increasing, then a week off before restarting your attempts at treatment should be okay.

Being a vet tech are you familiar with www.vspn.org or www.vin.com (veterinary information network)? They are a hugely great organization for CE and discussing cases with colleuges. I just finished (and may I say Ace'd ) a recent reptile medicine course offered by them. It was awesome!