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Female

Male

Are those Iran Desert Monitors? If so I heard they are like energy bombs!!!

!

Where did you get them from? How much? I saw some @Central Coast Reptile and he said they are his favorite monitor to work with so far. Very nice looking monitors!

does he really work with them? or is he just selling the offspring? As for price expect to pay a fair amount of $$ for them as they are not common. I believe there is only one source for them right now. The others you see for sale were just purchased to resell.

I Don't know if he breeds them or not (can't remember). I just remember he had some available. And thats what I thought about them being expensive.$$$$ You are probably right about him just selling them. I know the are VERY rare thats why I was curious, and where did you get yours from????
Thanks!!!

I emailed him to ask if he produced them or was just selling. he told me he produces them. Also said he cools them off for 4 months at 55 degrees.

I got this pair from Robert I also took over his website.

Cool, Good luck! Now we KNOW he has them and hopefully you to will be producing these amazing monitors.
Thanks

Nice, They look totally different from the common monitors kept. I hope they breed for you.
-----
Ed

These heat lamps make my electric bill to high.

I hope they produce too. First things first though they need to teach me.

wow!
nice griseus!
Did thois come from the breeder in Az? Have heard about him and his large griseus colony and have alway's fantasized about keeping some.How will you set them up?I know they have some pretty strigent needs!Would love to see how it works out for you.Best of luck!Are you familiar with the work of Alexey Yu and Elana Yu Tsellarius?They did long term studies and wrote a very interesting paper on Griseus.It is titled "behavior of varanus griseus during encounters with conspecifics"A fun read if your into it- again good luck!
Ben Aller

How I will set them up, but for now they are setup like all my other monitors to an extent. I will change things as they teach me what they are all about.

Hope this wont come across as rude,I mean this to be purely inquiztiive(sp?)but arent they totaly diferent from other monitors?Being the most primitive living form of varanus and having developed highly specialized mechanisims for desert dwelling they seem (from someone who has not kep them!)to have a lot of extra needs.It seems like it would be good to talk to others who keep them and read up on 'em.I have heard that the guy in Az. has very elaborate and large outdoor and indoor enclosures and had a hard time initially getting them to thrive.This is of course second hand info and I ask again just out of curiosity not saying do it one way or another ,whatever works for you!I would like to work with these guys someday so just researching.
Cheers B.A

I did not mean I had no clue or starting point for them. I have done research. I have talked to the last owner of my pair and taken over his website on them.

You asked what my setup will be. That I do not know as it is only what it is now and not what it will be later. I am sure they will have a few things to teach me before I know anything.

I took this same approach with my sandfish it's been 4 years now and they are fine. I did not start them off much different then other reptiles I keep. I learned to add a few things to it is all.

Cool web site!
Sounds like your in for a lot of fun/work.
Later.
B.A

Hi Jshadow,
Well you're in for some surpises with this species J. This is an amazing species - I am jealous you got them - I had not idea Robert got rid of them, but suspect why.

As Ben Aller said, you will see some things with these animals you will see with no other monitor - as few people have kept them, and fewer studied them, from all reports I have and I have tonnes on them, they are unique unto themselves.

Their hibernation is crucial - and they need to shed twice before breeding. They cycle similar to African varanids (V. exanthematicus and V. albigularis) but do not pop up until April or so. Then they eat like ravaged dogs until breeding, then stop again. Cooling temps for them in Sinai can be ~60F or so.

They also pair bond with same females annually, but only at breeding period, then separate = the perfect marriage = hahaha.

Your animals are Egyptian, not Libyan, Algerian or Moroccan or Western Saharan.

Good Luck,
markb

Hello Mark,

haha did you forget my real name?

Yes I am aware I will get some suprises, but hey thats what makes it fun.

have you seen these websites mark? i am sure you have but just incase here they are.

African Journal of Herpetology , RLC

Hi Jody,
Yes I did forget your name - I have those all the time - and why I write everything down now.

I know Adel Ibrahim, and I am glad you have seen his work - its good stuff and helpful to you. The other site came up as jiberish and I don't know what it is...give me a hint?

Many thanks Jody, and if I can help you, you know how to find me.
markb

I often question this strait line academic paradign of learning.(whats often pushed here) I question it because its not so very logicial. Please remember, to question is not to insult, or put down or anything negative. In fact, to question is very scientific and academic.

For instance with V.grieus, you suggest to read some studies. There is nothing wrong with those studies. But are they apples to apples? Academics is great, it also teaches us not to grope at knowledge(to feel about uncertainly) again for instance, most papers on desert monitors are from the nothern extremes of their range, they have one of the largest ranges of any varanid species. They occur from equatorial africa(where these the ones in question come from) to southern Russian deserts, to asia. I ask, are all grieus, griseus???? or do different populations have different behaviors and needs.

I have to question the premise that a equatorial african monitor would have the same requirements and behavioral needs as a southern Russian monitor. Here, many libarians, want us to use the extreme nothern example to understand the extreme southern example. How very un-academic of them. Then apply it to a caged animal thats in neither condition.

Also, Its often recomended to use information that has no practical application. For instance, what happens to a monitor in southern Russia surely may not apply to a monitor in a cage in Calif. or Ariz. Without question, its again apples to poppy seeds.

Also, using what is precieved as important to a wild monitor thats trying to survive the harshness of the extreme limits of Russia, may not even apply to what a monitor needs to survive and florish in a cage in the states.

In other words, I question the importance of trying to stick a round object in a square hole. I think if you read of an apples to apples comparision, like a fella in Russia, that kept and bred V.grieus to generations, then I would think you should become aware of his approach, you may find it valuable. But still you may not need that information at all.

I think Jody has a good approach, use the known to be sucessful captive techiques, and adjust as needed. This is apples to apples, its successful captive monitor paradign, applied to a captive monitor. How simple is that.

The truth is, all this information both academic and captive is expressing a high failure rate, at this time. So any intelligent person would have to question its value and or its application.

I know many get very mad at me for being so non scientific, but actually I believe I am being very academic and scientific, I am merely taking a basic logical scientific approach. In this case, so is Jody. I hope him the best results, but I think from the pics, that the female has been highly stressed and may not be a good choice for testing.

I think its far more important to be aware of a successful paradign of captive husbandry, they what may or may not be appliable from natural studies. After all, the subject of this post is indeed in captivity and subject to the keepers understanding of captive husbandry. Apples to apples.

Jody has shown the ability to keep monitors healthy, I believe his first task is to achieve what his strenghts express, to get them healthy, then proceed in a logical direction.

I find this approach of jumping the gun very common with monitor keepers or varanid academic students. They tend to get very concerned with how V.griseus or any other species deals with the natural world, when in fact, its not in the natural world. Its in our cages, however good or bad that may be. Thanks for reading.

In fact, the best approach maybe to apply known successful captive information of a similiar desert species, maybe something like V.flavirufus, then adjust to fit their reactions. FR

Hi FRank!
You might be floored by this response,I TOTALY AGREE WITH YOU!!!
I hope I can articulate myself well enough here.
First my questions for jody were just that- I build enclosures for a living and am curious how people keep animals of all types in all regions.Also The artical I recomended is just downright cool,with interesting behavioral observations I enjoyed reading it and thought he might too.
second-You might be pleasantly suprised to learn that I am a High school drop out,and have lived on my own and supported myself scince I was 15(31 now)So I'm not sure that i can be considered academic-like I said just interested!
I like to think that I take my own aproach to the academia vs. hands on husbandry issue.Just because I read something doesent mean I will believe or follow it,it just becomes more info for future reference.I think the real problem is with intepretation of info-and lack of independent thought.If you apply info from one range of a monitors habitat to the entire species you are not using info corectly,I never suggested anything even remotely close to that.I think a wholistc aproach works best combining husbandry and academic with personal experience,anyway this has worked for me,I like to learn from my animals and other acomplished keepers(you) as well as fancy book learnin'(Mark).Thats just what I like to do - didn't you say something about "dont hate me for doing what I like"I really hope this all came across as friendly-it's truly meant to be-.I am very good friends with Mark and have his back always,but dont lump me in with him(he's lumpy enough)I think for myself and have a different take than Mark.
I really should be working! will check back when the epoxie is drying.Hope to have pics up by tommorrow!

Cheers

Thats pretty much the setup style I have them in right now. Much like I have my flavis. But I am using more of a sandy substrate to see how it works for them.

I prefer my method of learning even though it seems many think it is a silly or wrong appraoch to take.

I also am concerned with the female, I was told she is a picky eater. Seeing as she is thin I am wondering why she is picky.

Hi Jody,
I think Comparing monitors of one ecological niche to another is fine too - when Steve Irwin asked me how to incubate his V. keithorni/Canopy Goannas - he thought like V. timorensis. I told his do it like V. rudicollis, and he got lots of babies from it, Thanks to Dale McGinnity at TN Zoo who shared all his notes/info with me years before.

However, unlike V. flavirufus - V. griseus is not a equatorial monitor (see Journal of Biogeography, 2002, 29:1643-1701) - as I confirmed in my paper - even the basic information about most monitor species is not really known but 'guesstimation' - and V. griseus is one of those real mysteries. It incubates for 5 months, as other African Varanids do, and is more like them than other monitors. Its vast range is indicative of its antiquity and adaptation to cold climates, and also hot climates. V. griseus reminds me of bears and their ways.

It 'likes' water, and actively hunts crocodile eggs - and like the Tigers of India - hunts them from the water approach, not the land approach as most crocodiles expect - as V. niloticus does. In North Africa it feeds on immature hedgehogs, jerboas, snakes, birds, and fish. Females and males feed on different items, especially when mating time nears - calcium rich foods might help. Try hamsters, fresh water fish, rat pups, dead snakes for your female.... these are amazing animals. As you saw from Adel Ibrahim's paper on Sinai V. griseus, their cool down temps and high exposure temps are dramatic - and Adel knows V. griseus pretty well. If you can similate these all the better for your cycling V griseus.

As for being lumpy, I am keeping those to a minimum now Ben...

Yes, I do read everything I can about them, compare and contrast and see alot of things from keepers nobody in wild studies would ever see or know....but you would only know that if you read the materials - then new information can be gained. Its all fascinating to me... and that is why I like to write up these 'wierd' observations so others can learn of them...like fr gouldii filling their water bowls with sand behavior - that is interesting - and does remind me of what elephants do too... but what are they doing it for = ? Its all them teaching us, but we have to 'listen' - and when captive information is lacking, sometimes the book-learning helps - and visa-versa!
mbayless

The adding to there special needs will come as I learn what they want. I have done this many times with my other reptiles. I find this approach works for me. To try and setup a miniature africa or russia or whatever does not work well for me.

I am simply taking what I know to work and apply it. Such as using what I learned from all my other monitors be it african, indo, or aussie. I also am using what I have learned from keeping sand fish and uromastyx. I of course read all the specifics on griseus, and various reports. They will also be applied as I see fit. I think this combination will benefit.

Still the most important information will come from the monitors themselves.

Thanks for the info. on different food items. As I believe this female needs help in that department.

your post wanted to add this:
You said "to Question is very scientific"
That is what i was doing "did you read this? what do you think ect?"NOT pushing anything just asking.
How is adding info from academic sources to known succesfull captive techniques and personal experience comparing apples to poppy seeds?
Being scientific is taking all info and applying/questioning results.How does my aproach differ?
Questioning the value and application of both academic and captive info is what I'm all about baby!
How is mentioning a neat article jumping the gun?
I never said to apply info from academic sources to a caged animal,merely to consider all information.
toodle loo
Ben

Please understand, I was not questioning your exact intent and approach. You seem to be doing well.

I was questioning the group of "did u read this" approach. In most cases and mine included, we with experience have indeed read most of the availible literature. Please understand, I full well understand, that judging someone from the internet is in total error. I can only go by what I read, see what I mean. FR

Hi FRank!
I actually do asume you have read these papers or similar and just wanted to discuss.I do agree that a lot of info is mis-used but am trying to avoid that mistake myself(hence discusion)

I know you said "the more you read the less you breed" were you talking about wives/girlfriends or monitors!Ha Ha
I like to read-there must be something wrong with my brain,it goes in 4 directions 20 hours a day-I have to feed it outside info or it might turn on me!
Cheers Ben

Actually I did not make that up, a good friend did, Scott Salstead from Vision cages(now that fellas crazy) He and I came up with a tee-shirt idea over beers(lots of beers) one night at the daytona show. The shirt said on one side, "Heatum and breedum" and "the more you read the less you breed", on the other. Then later, Jeff Hoffman, the owner of our site, made a similar shirt.

While I do not totally disagree with whats said on the shirt, I do not totally agree either. It was just entertainment at the bar.

Basically the premise is simple, kinda like Nike, "just do it" If folks would not take what they read in the past as so important, and pursue the future, I am sure the state of monitor keeping will advance at a much faster rate.

I kinda call it, copycat husbandry, everyone seems to force somekind of husbandry or another on newer keepers(even on me). The sad part is, much of what is being forced is old and out of date and clearly was not all that successful even when it was written.

You have to consider, goals and expectations were very different back then. In many cases, husbandry was based on, one baby hatched, heck, not even one clutch. Many zoo bean awards were givin out because a zoo hatched one individual. Then of course they are required to write a paper and include their husbandry. Of course those who read it think they were far more successful then they were. This is and was very common with varanid information.

After researching past reproductive husbandry, (when I was begining), I decided to take another route, and base my husbandry of already successful husbandry used with other types of reptiles. Of course, as you have seen, this has upset many old time varanphiles. I guess I could say, I am sorry about that, but I didn't and won't, Because of the way they attacked me. I could only say, to bad dudes. See I am rude. But it was they whom did the attacking, all I did was the breeding of monitors.

As time went on, with very little adjustment, what worked with ackies, worked with over 20 species, from all the major areas. I am sure it would work well with V.griesus. Specially because of my location. All I would have to do is supply lots of food. Of course I would adjust as needed.

Unfortunately, these arizona desert monitors were brought in, in a manner thats not legal and its was published on KS just how they were brought in. Please, the person may not have understood that what they did was illegal. I understand they were brough it under another name, by mistake, they were expecting another type of monitor. Unfortunately, thats illegal. So, I have stayed away from them. Thanks FR

Wow, very cool!
Is that their full size?
Do you know how old they are?
Best of luck with them
-H-

This pair will be 2 years old this year I believe.

They can get up to 3-4 foot range.

It is my understanding that varanus griseus is a CITIES Appendix I species. Did you have to pull a ESA permit to get them and if so was the process hard?

Thanks.

no and it all depends on where your located.

But getting permits is not that hard, just paper work and payment of fees.