Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Everybody,

Purchased 2 File Snakes from Regal Reptiles and they arrived today. One is pretty clean and healthy and the other has a bad case of the skin disease that takes most of these guys down.

I soaked them in freshwater (for drinking purposes) for about an hour, and then soaked them in Salt water (Instant Ocean) with a salinity of about 1.025 for another hour to help get a grip on the skin disease. I'm going to do weekly freshwater and saltwater soaks for the same reasons listed above.

I have them setup in a fully cycled 55 gal. with a brackish salinity of about 1.010, with a home brew Blackwater "Tea" made from oak leaves and peat moss. The pix don't show all the extra plants, etc that I added a little while ago.

The bigger one is settling in nicely, but the little one (with the skin disease) isn't settling in as well.

I will be getting some food for them tomorrow. I expect the larger one to eat, but the smaller one I'm not so sure about.

Been studying and reading everything I can find, and getting this setup as best I can.

Wish me luck!!!!LOL

Here is a pic of them in the saltwater bath. I added the washclothes for security and the settled right down.

A pic with the washcloths pulled away, getting ready to put them in their new home..........

The Little one moving around right after entry.........

Little one right after entry again........

Both on one end looking around.........

Bigger one heading for air.........

Getting a Breath of fresh air...........

This is what it looks like now. Plenty of cover and hiding places with support all the way to the top for air......

you might want to take 1/2 that water out and put a little land like rocks piled up together to the top because water snakes don't always like being under water.

>>you might want to take 1/2 that water out and put a little land like rocks piled up together to the top because water snakes don't always like being under water.

***A.granulatus are 100% aquatic.

Let me rant -

The smaller one is as good as dead. Regal Reptiles should be ashamed for sending it. It's my opinion that the larger one will be dead within 6 months. I really hope I am wrong - please keep us updated. If you succeed in keeping this species alive I would sure like to know how you've managed.

As far as I know, no one has managed to keep them alive (other than a couple zoos) - yet they keep importing them and selling them. Thats shameful.

Do you know that in the wild this species eats like, twice per year? The big one looks like it it's swollen - pregnant? Don't they have very large, live young?

Best of luck to you.

There are people out there who have/had long-term success with Acrochordus generally. A. granulatus appears to be the one that the least is known about. Yes, the smaller one may very well die and they both may very well die--that is the norm. But then again, many, many, many green tree pythons died during their establishment. Now they are everywhere. Chameleons are another example. One example after another is available.

If I manage to keep either one or both alive---it will be from research, research, research---including contact with others who have had success with Acrochordus generally. Long-term success. They could have certainly died in the hands of regal reptiles, but I decided to give it a go---knowing that it is--an Expected Failure.

Also, don't think for a second that there is anything INexpensive about these animals---in time, energy or money. A proper setup costs a small fortune.

The bigger one really just looks healthy. I doubt that there is any chance of it being gravid.

These snakes are imported and pretty much all of them die, yes. But the other option is their being used for food for the locals and the skin trade. Which would you prefer? I'm glad to have the opportunity to work with them. And regardless of the outcome this time---I will aquire more in the future. I used to see Acrochordus in Miami in the late 70's, early 80's when they were a dime a dozen. After 30 yrs of herping---I'm finally ready to give them a go.

Also, the skin disease isn't a mandatory death sentence---there are ways around it.

I have a Plan, but:

Thanx for the Luck---I think I'm going to need it!

Well, the little one didn't last 24 hrs. His overall health wasn't that great and I think the stress from shipping and a new home was just more than he could bare. Regal Reptiles didnt put newspaper or anything in the box, so they bounced their way all the way here--no doubt a LOT of unnecessary stress.

The bigger one seems to be settling in well, all things considered. Going to move him to a smaller setup with shallower water.

That's it for now.

Don't get me wrong. I think this is a fascinating species and I wish you the best of luck. I've bought them against advice, spent a small fortune setting them up, and watched them die in short order. I really hope you fare better - I'd love to figure out how to keep these guys alive in captivity!

But Regal Reptiles are liable and I plan to buy a pair from them and then sue their pants off when they die Seriously though, there are scum in every profession, apparently Regal Reptiles are scum in this one.

The fungus that forms on this species is lethal and incurable. IKt's possible that whats killing them isn't even related to the fungus. But they seem to die even with decent body weight. So I'm thinking something is killing them rather than starvation.

The research I read said they feed a couple times per year (!) on large prey items (fish). At that time 2 zoos had kept them alive, but only with elaborate filtration systems (I mean VERY elaborate) that kept the water unbelievable clean. These are conditions that can't be reproduced in typical homes, they devoted a whole room to the filtration system itself.

I wish you the best of luck and do please keep us posted!

Do you know of anyone who has kept A. granulatus alive for more than a year? If, so, let me know - I would like to talk to them!

The Elephant trunk snakes are considered to be easier, but not easy. (A. java ssp)

I think Regal Reptiles, who know very well that this species is almost impossible to keep alive, should keep them for at least 6 months and sell them only after they have fed, and fungus free. For them to sell you a fungus infected snake is deplorable. Shame on them.

I agree the fungus is just a part of the "Asian import syndrom" that affect aquatic and semi aquatic imports. Probably 99% die, I have seen some recover, I had an imported pipe snake that survived it and lived for ten years. There are many animals that when first imported could not be keep successfully and are now commonly bred animals, many chameleons sp. and poison arrow frogs for example. Is it worth the thousands that die every year in the attempt? That is very heated topic, in my opinion, as stuarts of this planet, we have a responsiblity to understand the needs of all the creatures on it, how else can we know how to protect there environment if we don't fully understand how they interact in it? There is a balance that must occur and if thousands die while we stumble through it then so be it. Thousand more will be preserved, when we learned how to care for them. The error is in getting these animals and doing your best to establish and breed them.

Hi undfun,

Your words are well taken, and, believe me, mine are given with the best intentions possible also.

I seriously doubt also that starvation has anything to do with this species dying in captivity. And I tend to agree with rick's general "asian Import Syndrome". I think its a group of related health issues brought on by "stress".

These snakes being reported to only eat a couple times/yr in the wild really isn't of much value. Some rattlesnakes are report to probaly only eat 3-4/yr. I have kept many rattlesnakes over the yrs and have friends that have also. We have all fed them more than 3-4/yr and getting then to feed more often isn't a problem.
One problem may simply be a species-specific menu imprint of what constitues "Food". A lot like imported ball pythons--they have specific food items imprinted in the brain and really don't recognize our mice and rats as food. So, for a long time, getting imported ball pythons to feed on our pet store rats and mice was a challenge. Overtime and many dead pythons later---people have developed techiques to overcome this problem.

I agree completely that Regal Reptiles should not be selling sick animals. That's bad business regardless of the type of animal being sold. I'm not really familiar with Regal, but I see them as a large local (RI) Reptile PET store that found a larger market through the internet. I've known many pet store owners and workers over the yrs---and I am just really not impressed. Maybe I'm wrong. Ultimately, they had a choice--go for the gold or taken a loss. They apparently chose the gold.

No, I don't know anyone who has kept granulatus for over a yr. And I'm not expecting to be the one to change that. Right now "He" is alive. He has some of the skin disease, he hides and comes out to cruise around. He hangs out at night like he's hunting, but I'm not sure what he's doing. He's not in the best of health, but he is currently alive---its only been 3 days. LOL
If he is dead tomorrow, in a week or month--so be it. But between now and then--I am doing all I can do and will learn somethings in the process. Again, this is an Expected Failure. That's not to say that I don't care or anything like that. It just means that I will do what I can do and still not expect Success.

In the future I won't dilly-dally around on purchasing these. I will either buy as soon as they become available, or wait until the next round. With these, I was going to buy when they first became available at Regal, but then I talked myself out of it and then back into it. Valuable time wasted while the animals were improperly housed and getting sick.

These animals are captured and their basic fate is either being imported with a minute chance of survival, OR guaranteed death as food and Boots! To me there is NO arguement. If these animals are going to die on the other side of this planet---then they might as well import some and give us the opportunity to try to figure out how to keep them alive long-term in captivity. I understand the high school economics of Demand creates supply. But we've all bought things off the shelf because it was what was AVAILABLE. It may not have been EXACTLY what we wanted/needed, but it was the closest AVAILABLE item. After high school economics we learn that often times SUPPLY creates Demand. You choose/take from what is available. And If we think about our purchases--the world we live in is VERY supply creates demand. Even as expensive as Cars are, the auto makers make cars in a vast array of choices/options. Yet very, very, very few people "Order" exactly the vehicle they want. They tell the dealer what they want and the dealer tries to find it. Often times the dealer does NOT find the exact vehilce and the buyer "Settles" for the next "Closest" choice, ie, Supply creates Demand. In short, if they are going to die: send some over here and let us kill them TRYING to figure how to keep them alive. I realize that we are not debating this issue, but before anyone comes along with some tree-hugging perspective--this is where I stand.

Finally, and again, Yes, I agree--selling sick animals is bad busness. Period. BUT I am still glad that this species is available. With "enough" interest: we'll get this one sorted out.

Again, My words are offered with the best of intentions and some of the statements are not aimed at/or in response to you personally.

To quote: "Let me rant" LOL

Again, Thanx for the Luck!

My, aren't we defensive?

All I said is that this species dies in typical captive conditions - period. I didn't accuse you of anything for trying. I did say Regal should be ashamed for importing them unless they know how to keep them alive, which they don't.

As far as claiming it's some sort of noble experiement to understand how to keep them alive in captivity, it's already been done. They have to be transported in the proper conditions, which they never are, and maaintained in extremely clean water, as has been done in Chicago and in Australia - no where else to my knowledge.

Pretending that (as the previous poster did) that learning how to keep them as a hobbiest will somehow help the species in the wild is niave. No captive herps are ever returned to the wild, and there is nothing I've read that indicates this species is endangered in the wild. So these sorts of justifications aren't logical.

The fact that some of this species is harvested for their skin doesn't make it OK to import hundreds if no one knows how to keep them alive in a "normal" hobbiest environment. Regal should either know how to keep them alive and impart that information to purchasers, or they shouldn't import them. Selling animals that you don't know how to keep alive sounds a lot like PetSmart - not good.

Finally, I don't blame you at all for trying - I did it myself. I will tell you just what I told myself when mine died - do your homework BEFORE you buy next time, not after. I'll still occasionally buy an import I suspect will die, but I'll do as much research before-hand as possible and expect the worse. Souds like you did the same.

I wasn't suggesting that they would be returned to the wild, my point was how can you protect them in the wild, if you do not understand the natural requirements needed to keep them alive? And yes understanding that will protect them in the wild.As far as it having been done before, yes it has, by hobbiest as well, it just hasn't been repeatable, or you would be able to count more the three places that have them. And you have grossesly over simplified the problem if "clean water" the was the only issue we would all have them established, Its insulting really, to those of us who spend not only thousands of dollars in equipment, but thousand of hours of our time, researching and studing, to have someone who probably doesn't know enough about maintaining a tank to keep a guppie alive, tell us that it's pointless. It's ignorance like that, that is responsible for many species of herps that have gone extinct in our life time.

Your comment suggesting that I don't know enough to keep a guppy alive was childish - personal attacks just expose your own immaturity. You know nothing about me.

To say that learning to keep this species in captivity will help us understand what they need in the wild is illogical. We already understand what they need to live in the wild - the habitat they are thriving in. If we learn they will eat goldfish how will we apply that insight to their existance in the wild?

The 2 zoos that have managed to keep this species alive (I've spoken to both keepers) described extensive filtration systems running the water in their oversized enclosures through room-sized filtration systems cost thousands of dollars.

This species is often shipped dry, or only damp, which also seems to stress it beyond recovery under even the best of conditions. Bottom line, no company should sell a living creature that they can't keep alive themselves - and I guarantee you Regal Reptiles can't keep them alive. Shame on them.

Don't be so defensive, dweeb

I 've spoken with them as well and my filters are far more advanced then there's as is the water quality, again I can only repeat myself since your oblviously in the wrong here. If we knew what they required to survive in the wild then there would be no problem. In the last 50 years many species of herps have gone extinct becuase we didn't understand how our interaction in their environment was going to effect them. So studying a species and having a complete understanding of its needs, is a necessary pursuit, that point being made, I still think you'd have trouble with guppies or even picking one out in a crowd. And as far as the dweeb remark is concerned, Na, Na, Nee, Boo, Boo! Iam rubber and your glue whatever you say bounces of of me and sticks to you ;P

Defensive?--Sure, Maybe--Maybe Not.

Been to a vast array of message boards over the last 9 yrs, including Kingsnake.com for much of that. I've seen many things, including people who just want to bicker, fight whine or complain. And let's not forget the one's that just want to be "Right" at any cost. One of the reasons I (and many others) don't go to the venomous forum(s) anymore.

So, since we have managed to get Waaaaaaaay off-topic---I am going to bid You "Ado" before this thread degrades any further...........

CYa!