Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well first of all, Draykos doing GREAT! He could be eating more veggies but i think that will come with maturity.

Anyways to the questions! haha I've been working on a 55gallon tank for drayko for a couple weeks. I've been taking my time because i figured he would need to be older to use it. I'm designing the tank around the size he would be in a couple months and that he could live in for a while but won't be big enough when hes an adult. He'll then be recieving a custom melamine cage I'll build. Well in his current tank (10g) hes doing a lot of peeking out of the tank and wondering around the perimeter. Its really like he wants out. I'll put him out on the bed and he'll run around checking stuff out and looking all over the place. Lay down and just look at stuff. Do you think he may feel trapped in his current tank? I know this might be adding human characteristics to him but oh well.

My biggest question is i'm thinking would it be ok to put him in his new home in the next week or two when i have it finished. Now theres a couple concerns. First is that there will be sand in the new tank. Now i know this is a no no with the young beardies but what if he were to be taken out of the tank for feeding? Will they still ingest sand from simply living with it?

I ordered silkworms and i think thats going to be my new main supply of food. The reviews seem that they digest much better and are far less to cause impaction that crix. They would also be easier to feed to him outside of his cage.

I have no problem waiting months to introduce him to his new tank (its not going to be a full size 55, you'll see when i post pictures soon) I just want him to have room to move around and have options. I want him to be happy!

If your beardie is a baby i wouldnt put him on sand even if you feed outside of the tank. Beardies are excentric little creatures and sometimes they eat sand just because they want to. I really wouldnt risk your beardies health, wait until he is a little older
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

good enough reason for me!

I think i'm going to search some yardsales and try to find him a 20 gallon breeder tank or something a little larger that i can put him in.

I use sand in my beardies tank. Sand is always going to be a controversal issue with everyone. Each person has different experiences with it. My beardie isn't full grown and is far from adult yet not a baby and he is fine. His bathroom trips are fine and clean and he hasn't injested it at all. You just need to watch it to see his reaction. He will go in at first and lick his surroundings to explore but very quickly he will realize it's nothing to tasty and will stop. I even feed my beardie in his tank with no problems.

I went from a large tank for my beardie to a smaller tank and have had sucess. At first in a larger tank he wasn't growing to his fullest in the younger years probably due to stress. Now in a smaller 20gal to start with he is doing fantastic again it depends on the lizard. Just maje sure you monitor him daily to see how his reaction to his surroundings are!

And we'd love to see pictures when posted!

Ps. Sometimes removing a beardie into a different tank for feeding can cause stress. Try feedig him in his new home and see how he is with it. Don't listen to anyones Guff on here either. Each lizard is different and as long as you monitor him closely to make sure he is doing fine and remove him if stress or he is eating his sand then you will do fine.
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~Kayla
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1.1 Leopard Geckos *Astrid, Quin*
0.1 Pictus Gecko *Raine*
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (unsexed) *Little Buddy*
1.0 Boxer *Apollo*
1.2 Hollond Lop Bunnies *Panda, Oreo, Smokey*

Everyone's experiences are different, but in my opinion, why risk it? Beardies that never show problems with sand for years could get impacted one day...read the below post it is a good example of how things can go bad. Not all beardies on sand will get impacted, but some will....

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=779648,779648
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

However beardies natural habitat is what? I'm not going to argue over this issue. My dragon is not a baby he is 8 months old aprox now and is doing JUST fine.
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~Kayla
*********************
1.1 Leopard Geckos *Astrid, Quin*
0.1 Pictus Gecko *Raine*
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (unsexed) *Little Buddy*
1.0 Boxer *Apollo*
1.2 Hollond Lop Bunnies *Panda, Oreo, Smokey*

Yes a beardies natural habitat is san dint he wild, but how many wild hatchling beardies make it to adults? Not many, tahts why they have so many babies. In captivity we are working with one baby and trying to raise them to adulthood, thereby eliminating many of the risks that come with wild living. In the wild beardies are also oppurtunistic feeders and eat waht they happen to find but we dont just turn our beardies lose in the backyard and say "oh in the wild they catch their own food, why not here too"

Its compltely different. Again, i am not saying sand cannot be used as a substrate, and im not even saying that all animals kept on sand will die, but it is a risk you take when you use it.
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

Again I will say this. I'm not about to argue .. I warned this poor guy about people jumping all over people about the sand issue. If you noticed I also advised him to MONITOR his dragon!
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~Kayla
*********************
1.1 Leopard Geckos *Astrid, Quin*
0.1 Pictus Gecko *Raine*
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (unsexed) *Little Buddy*
1.0 Boxer *Apollo*
1.2 Hollond Lop Bunnies *Panda, Oreo, Smokey*

Im sorry, im really not trying to argue, sand is a much heated debate and its impossible to conclude it really. I just wanted to make sure he had all his options. I get a big uneasy when people recomened using sand just because their animal is on it and hasn't had a problem. That is a bit of an isolated example you know? I think it is more educated to take examples from more than one case of one 8month old beardie that has yet to have any problems.

I really just want to make sure people understand the risks associated with it and understand that statistically impactions do happen sometimes when beardies are on sand and they can cause death. Either way, as long as all the options are out in the open then its up to each indivudual to make an educated desicion about how they wish to care for their beardie.

No hard feelings at all. Sometimes debates are good for getting everything out and on the floor for discussion!

~Mim
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

i couldn't agree more. I see it all as constructive criticism or opinions you know? Not everyone knows everything and certain situations are different.

My main question was that impaction from sand usually has to do with feeding on sand. Just thought there might be a way around it.

I had a little scare earlier. The breeder i got him from said he was rasied on sifted playsand so thats what i put him on. Well he didn't poop for a couple days and it scared me. Turned out the crickets he was eating were a little to large and were clogging things up. I went to pinheads (which i think are to small) and hes eating tons of them but pooping every day now. I took the sand out just because i was so scared he was impacted and wanted to play everything safe. It seemed like he loved it because he would sprawl out in the sand and sleep or nessle down in it and watch everything out side of his tank. I also ordered silkies to help with his digestion and nutrition.

I like it because i love natural looking environments. I'm not sure what i'll do. Doesn't hurt to play it safe ya know.

Yah I remember you saying your brother fed him large crix. Just monitor him. It's their natural enivronment and people don't give these lizards enough credit. They lived many years before we started breeding them and keeping them as pets just fine. Hell they even fed themselves. Like I said my beardie is 8 months old and on sand. You can check his poop to make sure there is no sand in it.

You could probably also graduate from Pin Heads to Small Crix now. There is a difference. Good luck in whatever you do!
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~Kayla
*********************
1.1 Leopard Geckos *Astrid, Quin*
0.1 Pictus Gecko *Raine*
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (unsexed) *Little Buddy*
1.0 Boxer *Apollo*
1.2 Hollond Lop Bunnies *Panda, Oreo, Smokey*

You are right, it doesn't hurt to play it safe. I had my beardie on sand for awhile when i first got her, before i learned more about them and she seemed to like it too. I didn't want to switch her because i thought she liked sand so much, but the same way that dogs looove to eat chocolate, just because they like it, doesnt mean its good. Of course sand is not as dangerous to beardies as chocolate its to dogs, but its just an analogy. Anyways, i switched her to reptile carpet and she doesn't mind a bit, her behavior didn't change at all.

Another option some people opt for is having a small area with sand in so if the beardie wants to dig and play they can do so.

Of course it is totally up to you as it is your lizard but make sure you weigh all the options before you decide, and if you do put him on sand, i would at least weight until he is an adult so that if he DOES injest some sand he will have a better chance of passing it.

Good luck with everything,

Mim
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

thanks for the info!

I also have Drayko on repti carpet. I have a couple things in there to keep him happy. Nice smooth rock for basking and a couple pieces of wood for climbing. He loves the wood. He'll hang on it and sit crazy ways.

i like the idea of possibly putting a small area of sand in his tank. I might try that just to see. I'm not sure, i find it hard to believe he would have problems with sand when he was raised on it.

I really dont want to sound like a stick in the mud but wether he was raised on sand or not doesn't have anything to do with wether he is more at risk. They do not get immune from impactions or anything by being on sand. Some beardies are on sand their whole life and get impactions when they are adults. Some don't. It totally depends.
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0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican kingsnake
1.0.2 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Rose Hair Tarantula
1.0 BTS
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

Definately understandable and i see the point.

are there any other types of substrate that can be used that are a little more natural than carpet? Any types of gravel or something heavier and larger? I'm thinking probably not but cust out of curiousity.

the problem with anything like gravel, wood, sand, etc is still the chance that even inadvertently they might eat it. We have switched several times and ended up with carpet and newspaper. While I have heard of some reptiles eating some of the paper it is not as likely as some sand, wood chips, etc as they chase after crix. I actually saw a nearsighted one that kept getting impacted because it was eating sand thinking it was snapping up a cricket.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

wow that would be terrible...

I have used ceramic tile that is sand colored and has a texture to it that looks like wind blown sand...I bought it at Lowe's and it din't cost much, they even cut it for me since it came in 12" X12" pieces...a few needed shortened for the length of the tank...it's not completely smooth so Smaug has no trouble moving...the only problem with the tile is that the very small crix can get into cracks between tile and side of tank or under it but no problem with larger crix...
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1.1 Bearded Dragons - Smaug and Little One (for now, till I know the sex for sure)
3.1 Bettas - Jason, Ori, Fishy Fishy Fishy, Faith
1.0 3 Legged Bullfrog - Jeremiah Sim Choy
1.0 Leopard Gecko - Spike
0.1 Guinea Pig- Oreo

You could always seal the ceramic tile with a silicon based caulking, though this would mean you can't take them out to clean but tile isn't very hard to clean even in a tank.

Non stick shelf liner and plastic table cloth can also be used, both come in a wide variety of patterns and colors.

Though there is alot of loose sand in Australia where bearded dragons originally came from, it isn't open desert. Alot of the sand is hard packed, covered with vegetation and rocks. Also, wild bearded dragons are much more accurate when hunting than most captive dragons. There will always be a risk of impaction with sand, but dragons can live on it all their lives without complications. It's not impossible for this to happen. But I think there is more chance of impaction when a dragon lives on it for it's entire life.

From cage setups I have seen posted here, I personally feel that those who do use sand, have it too deep. The dragons look like they are drowning in sand, sinking to their armpits in the stuff. I don't see why they keep it so deep, when an inch is more than enough to give that natural look and allow the dragon some better stability on the sand.
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PHLdyPayne