Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Our new male gecko, Lazar, arrived May 3rd. When he came in he was very pale from the stress of shipping. He slowly regained some color, but nowhere near his beautiful coloring from the breeder's website. Here is his pic from the website:

He just shed last night, and I was hoping his color would return after he shed. I was disappointed to see only a little more color. Here he is right after shedding:

We still love him no matter his color, he is so spunky and fun to watch hunt crickets! (he goes into the tail jiggling mode when hunting, so funny!) I just wonder what the normal length of time to return to normal color is. He wouldn't just turn from Tangerine to Yellow permanently, would he?

Thanks!
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

OMG! That's a big difference. I would contact who you got him from and ask a few questions. That pic doesn't look very recent..also it looks almost doctored up just because the color is sooo much different. He should gain back some color but I don't think he'll ever look as good as that pic...you never know though.
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Katie F.
Peach State Geckos
Breeding Mealworms
My Email

"A herper's life is never dull" - ME

Crap. That's what I was hoping against. We actually did contact the breeder when he first arrived, because he was extremely pale yellow, we were expecting a pale orange. He said that if we put him on paper towels, he would turn more vivid orange as he tried to use camoflauge to blend in. Yeah...turn orange to blend in with white...I knew that was a load of crap, I was just hoping that Lazar would change on his own. Also he has gained spots compared to the web picture, I thought leos only lost spots with sheds. Either way, we'll email him to ask him what is up with the color difference.

Thanks

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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

I think you've been had...

If you bought it from an ad here, follow instructions in the TOS section to report fraud. The USPS website also offers a site for you to file a complaint, and so will your state's consumer protectiuon agency.

I am going through it myself, with three fat tails I bought recently. I am just giving time for the investigation to run its course, but if I just end up losing my money his name will be v-e-r-y publicized.

The original picture does look touched up, and I never had a leo fading colors during shipment due to stress. Their colors fade out right before shedding.

You can try Nekton-Rep supplements, it seems to build up the yellows/oranges, but you definitely did not get what he sold you.
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Email me

>>I think you've been had...
>>
>>If you bought it from an ad here, follow instructions in the TOS section to report fraud. The USPS website also offers a site for you to file a complaint, and so will your state's consumer protectiuon agency.
>>
>>I am going through it myself, with three fat tails I bought recently. I am just giving time for the investigation to run its course, but if I just end up losing my money his name will be v-e-r-y publicized.
>>
>>The original picture does look touched up, and I never had a leo fading colors during shipment due to stress. Their colors fade out right before shedding.
>>
>>You can try Nekton-Rep supplements, it seems to build up the yellows/oranges, but you definitely did not get what he sold you.
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>>Email me
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Katie F.
Peach State Geckos
Breeding Mealworms
My Email

"A herper's life is never dull" - ME

Hope you didn't go through it too, but if after the legal process concludes and I lose my money, sure like heck I will publicize the experience, his name and business' name.

He sold out of Boise, Id
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Email me

I don't buy that for one bit. I got my leo from an online breeder also, and she came a month later the exact same bright orange as in the picture, and she's only gotten brighter. And I had put her on paper towels and then switched her to repti-carpet, and there still was no change in color. You might want to look into getting your money back. Tangs and carrot-tails aren't cheap. If you want to keep it regardless, maybe they could just refund some of your money. That's false advertising. It's extremely easy to change the coloring in a digital picture.
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~*Chibi*~
Sir Iggy ( 1.0.0 El Salvador Blue Iguana), Ryo-ohki, Orion, Bud, & Finnegan (3.1.0 crazy kitties), Rosebud (0.1.0 cockerspaniel), Trixie and Kayko (0.1.1 leopard gecko)

i played with it in photoshop, just adjusting the color balance and hue i got it to look like this, pretty close the the breeder's pic. i'd say definately doctored.

Hmmm, that's a good job with the orange. What about the black spots Lazar has now that aren't in the breeder's picture? And the slightly whitish collar around the neck? Is that doable with photoshop too?

Thanks!
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

You can do almost anything with photoshop provided you know how to do it! And I would definately get on the phone to this guy and ask for a full refund. And also make him pay the return shipping. He has lied to you and had basically conned you into false belief that this animal was something it is not! Can you also tell this forum of the breeder you got this animal from so that people can be warned about him/her. Thank You.

Gilbery's Gecko's

My personal experience with Aplus....I purchased a male from themlast year. I had a hard time deciding between the male I did buy, and the one you have bought. Below is a picture of LeRoy. I've got to tell you, honestly.. this $100 male was AS GREAT an investment than the $450 males in my collection. I will attach pics of his offspring in the next post. Now, his color wasn;t as 'red' as pictured in the breeder's photo of him, but he is quite an intense dark orange coloration (head pigment is red). And he is my absolute favorite male. So.. if you were buying yours to breed, I think you will be pleasatnly suprised with the end results. As for the color, I do think he will 'orange' up given a little time. He may not look exactly like his baby pic, but I think he's going to be a super nice male! And P.S.... yours is still my fave male on the current website. I love the defined markings on his head.. I always thought he looked painted.

I'll get better pics of Leroy soon.. this pic was taken outside, just before dusk.

LeRoy's offspring...

He was bred to a normal female with tangerine highlights. Even the regular high yellow female I bred him to, her babies are terrific (Just started hatching last week)! All his babies are taking after him. But look at this little one... he is not my 'best' baby this year, but he is definately my favorite.

ahhhhhh!! What to do, we'll still email him asking why he's yellow and not orange. Should we ask for our money back, or half of it, or just shipping back, if he stays yellow for the rest of his life? Should I ask him straight up whether he touched up the pictures?

This really upsets me, I like to believe that people are honest and care about the buyer. I don't want to accuse the breeder falsely, maybe he took that picture when Lazar was younger? If what you (princesskain) say is true, maybe he'll get a little bit more orange as he grows, and his babies will have orange? Here is another picture I took of Lazar today, not the best because he was running around everywhere, but it shows his color a bit better.

(looks golden yellow to me)

Compared to the breeder's pic:

So the pickle I'm in is that I'm very angry if he falsely advertised this leo, but I really don't want to faslely accuse him. We'll email him asking what's up with the color, and none of the "use paper towels so he'll blend in and be orange" crap.

Thank you, everyone, for the replies!
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

I know how you feel, I've pondered making that email on a few occasions. I guess part of my relief in my own transaction with them is that I bought 2 tangerine's from 2 different breeder's at the same time. I paid less for the one from Aplus, and he ended up being much nicer in person than the one I paid 3x that for. That made me appreciate LeRoy more... made me wish I hadn't spent all the money on the other.

I do think yours will color up better once he stays nice and warm.. and unstressed for awhile. If you are unhappy with him, you really should contact them though. It's alot of money to spend for most people, and there's no sense living with that regret.

I hope I've helped a little. It's really frustrating to buy via the internet, and get something of a mis-representation.

I think your guy is the same age as Leroy, but look...

this pic was taken after I received him. He does look very yellow. He's about 1yr now, and there's no mistaking him for tangerine.

Oh wow, that is a big difference between then and now. Lazar looks similar to that yellow color that LeRoy is in the older picture. And it looks like LeRoy lost the few spots on his back since that picture too? We're still going to talk to the breeder about it, but that gives me some hope that the little guy might gain back some of his orange and lose some of his spots.
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

Hi again, I like your positive attitude towards the whole thing. But I still feel you should get in contact with A-plus and just ask him was the pic true or not! But if you feel and believe this guy is worth it then keep him, he is a gorgeous looking fellow and would surely make a great addition to any colection.

Gilbery's Gecko's

Oh, we will contact him, don't worry. I'm waiting for my boyfriend to get back from a flight because we used his email account to contact the breeder initially, then I'll look back over the email conversations we had with the breeder and send an email. I'll let you guys know if we get any info. Either way we're still going to keep this guy, no worries

Thanks for everyone's help!
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

I would def be asking some questions, If I were you I would be ticked! Ask him straight up did he doctor the pic and also I would ask for a full refund..keep the gecko though.
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Katie F.
Peach State Geckos
Breeding Mealworms
My Email

"A herper's life is never dull" - ME

Give him until the end of the weekend to offer restitution. Do not wait longer, if you are going to file your complaints have in mind that the investigations take months, or longer if the guy does not respond.

And there are also time limitations. This is not ebay, you don't have to wait 1 month to file a complaint & get your money.
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Email me

You guys should really check out this possible explanation on Trempers site.
Temperature and color

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Jeff West

That has no significance with regard to this topic. Tremper's site is about egg incubation temperatures affecting the color of the baby, and his techniques are questionable anyways. Mmmm, cook the eggs for weird looking colors...
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

I agree with Blue. Trempers page has nothing to do with the change of color in shipment. Tremper is just telling how TWO different animals look after being incubated at diff. temps.

The only thing I can see that has happend is that the person taking and posting pictures of this animal on there site is full of it and should be well known.
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Austin-WiteLeo
Leopard Geckos
3.5.1
2-Blizzard
2- SHTCT's
2-Stripe/Choc. Albino's
1-Het Albino
2-High Yellows
LOTS of BABIES!
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Actually, if you read the article, it talks about colors in adults, too. I was offering a suggestion, and in my opinion, it is relevant.
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Jeff West

Oh, and also, the temperatures he is incubating at are 88-90...no higher than the regular temp for males. He suggests that you incubate for sex for 20 days then increase to the male temp. He's NOT "cooking" them....
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Jeff West

Yes, I have read the article before, it is still about color differences between leo eggs incubated his way and not his way. No way relevent to shipping conditions or doctoring up pictures whatsoever. How does higher heat keeping darker pigment from forming in the skin during embryo development have anything to do with a leopard gecko that may *possibly* have faded color due to shipping stress, but more likely he is his normal color and his breeder picture was a misrepresentation?

Also, if you've read about R.T.'s cooking method, you'll see that he has a high embryo death rate, just to get the bright colors. Ask Gregg M. and other breeders, or read other forums, they talk/debate about it occasionally.
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0.1.0 Normal Leopard Gecko: Mala Ala
1.0.0 Tangerine Leopard Gecko: Lazar
2.0.0 White's Tree Frogs: Wabo and Mermit
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon: Igor
4.0.0 Bettas: Ghost, Misty, Assasin, and Cobalt

I am suggesting that possibly the shipping temerature was too low. If the temperature dropped below 80 the colors could have faded.
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Jeff West

I do completely agree that his picture was obviously doctered. I also do agree that his color was faded from shipment. You do not know what temperature he was shipped at. I am making a suggestion to you. I have read more than one article about color and temerature. Tremper's study was one that involved incubation temperatures, but other studies indicate that constant exposure to temperatures above 84 help the colors stay bright. An exposure to temps below 80 could fade them. He probably also was very stressed during shipping which may have contributed, but be open to other possibilities as well.
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Jeff West

Just in case you didn't belive me and didn't re-read RT's article, i copied this straight from it. I'm not an idiot.
"In the near future, I will be posting photos of albinos that have changed color from light to dark after hatching due to exposure to temperatures below 84F even as adults. This is a phenomena unique to leopard geckos. Keeping your albinos with a 90F hot spot all the time will prevent this migration of pigment in their skin. I have tested this on geckos from 1 to 12 months old. Those given a hot spot of 90F all the time don't darken compared to geckos that have been exposed to temps below 84F. This darkening does not reverse itself.". Straight from RT himself.
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Jeff West