Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that this may be a very stupid question, but I consider all my animals family. My Saharan (hope I spelled that right)is wild caught, handsome, and was very gentle in the Animal store. We have had him for year and a half. He went through his "hibernation" stage and shared a cage with a male mali (we found out way after the fact that the mali was a male from the vet). They had to be separated when my husband found the Yellow Saharan(Name: Thor) biting the Mali (Name: Blue). Both my Uros love to burrow, so for a couple weeks...I would keep fresh veggies in the cage and not bother them. Of course, I would check to see if they were well. Finally, it was bath time...Blue took her bath fine...but Thor tried to bite me. Hit me with his tail, ect. Since then, he has been extremely aggressive. I have tried holding him every day, giving more TLC. But, nothing has worked. My hubby told me that "WILD" caught animals probably act that way? What should I do? I love him to much to give him away. But, maybe he would feel better?

I think most people would agree that uromastyx really aren't meant to be handled every day. They're more of a "look but don't touch" animal. As long as you feed him daily and keep all his temperatures proper, if he is healthy he will be basking and romping around his enclosure, and that is the ideal and what you should be striving for... if he doesn't want to be handled (I doubt most reptiles really "want" to be handled, though some will tolerate it without violence) then naturally he will be defensive and I'd say he should be left alone. I think trying to grab him every day when he just wants to be left alone is going to be detrimental to his health. Reptiles don't understand "TLC" like dogs and cats, they just seem to think they are being attacked when they are grabbed.

Others who are more experienced can chime in on this, but I don't think uromastyx need baths unless the occassion calls for it - like a tough shed or if they are dehydrated or something of that sort. I do not believe regular bathing is necessary, so if he doesn't want to be bathed, don't do it. (If you are using a substrate like dirt that makes them dirty, then I'm really not sure if you need to bathe or not - someone who uses dirt might be able to give advice there.)

Anyway, I don't think him being defensive when picked up should be cause for much alarm or considering giving him away - if he's acting well in his enclosure, then it is fine.

Hope that helps!
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~ Vamppire
Queens, New York City

>>My Saharan (hope I spelled that right)is wild caught,
>>handsome, and was very gentle in the Animal store.
Probably cold and undernourished at the time/not adequately warm or adequately fed, however you want to phrase it. All my healthy animals are active and FAR from complacent. The cooler they are, the more amicable they are to handling. {that's a hint)

>>Finally, it was bath time...but Thor tried to bite me. Hit me
>>with his tail, ect.
Some of us don't normally bathe our animals, YMMV.

>>Since then, he has been extremely aggressive. But, nothing
>>has worked.
They do seem to hold grudges There is a mistake in word choice, though. I expect a better description is that he's defensive and not aggressive. I haven't seen a Uro pick a fight with me. They're built to flee. Geyri do it well.

>>My hubby told me that "WILD" caught animals probably act that
>>way?
Not that I've noticed. There are definite behavioral trends in the different species and geyri are nervous, shy, anti-social (human-wise), timid, etc. My first two Uros were geyri and since then I've come to have five of them (plus one deceased). While some of them are less flighty than others, none of they have a real inclination towards being handled at all. I actually got bitten by one for the first time today as one of the males was try to escape medication. My bad, it was the middle of the day. The males have also tended to be more "exhuberant", so those colors come with a price.

>>What should I do? I love him to much to give him away. But,
>>maybe he would feel better?
Just don't take it personally. Stay on your side of the cage.
-->It's not that the animal doesn't like you, it's that it's not going to be interested in anyone.

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2.4.0 uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian)
0.0.4 uromastyx hardwickii (Indian)
3.7.0 uromastyx macfadyeni (Somalian)
1.3.0 uromastyx ocellata (Sudanese)
"Yes, it's a problem. No, I don't want to talk about it."

They're neat to interact with from the opposite side of the glass, but beyond that geyri are "difficult". I've pursued other more sociable species to mess with.
If you need to handle him, do it in the morning before the heat comes on, when he's coolest. I always keep my fingers away from mouths except when I need to do something with it. The bite I got today was panicked and I've only known these guys to keep their mouths tightly shut under normal conditions (except when hissing), but better safe than sorry.
When grabbed from the top the tail is free to swing but if I hold them with their belly to the palm of my hand, they seem to settle in. Otherwise, if you just grab or touch the base of the tail it's not going to get swung and if so, not with a very appreciable force. I hope you didn't think it was just decoration when you bought him
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2.4.0 uromastyx geyri (Saharan/Nigerian)
0.0.4 uromastyx hardwickii (Indian)
3.7.0 uromastyx macfadyeni (Somalian)
1.3.0 uromastyx ocellata (Sudanese)
"Yes, it's a problem. No, I don't want to talk about it."

i have a cb pair and there the tamest and most easy going uromastyx i have and all of mine are pretty much laid back but the saharans the most out of them all, i put my hand in to feed them and they'll walk all over me and always want out to walk around , and have yet to see them aggressive, they have never darted away or anything they just seems to always walk around a lil quick thats how laid back they are, it all has to do with being captive bred and being wild caught, and also there personalities, they are all different and act different , there can be wc that can be real tame as in handling but i really don't think they really ever wanna be handled, well what i'm trying to say is that u can't really categorize them like that
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1.1.0 cb red saharan uromastyx 0.0.1 cb egyptian occelated uromastyx 0.0.1 cb mali uromastyx

If you really want to be able to handle your Uro, you'll have to take a training approach as you would with any other herps. Now i don't have experience with Saharans, but i have managed to make handleable many many other species of lizards and snakes over the years.

What you want to do is to gain the animal's trust. Usually i do this with say a Uro by offering a tasty food item by hand (ie- Dandelion flower). You'll have to be patient, but eventually it'll begin to pay off and the Uro will come over and take it. It might take a couple of sessions with the Uro getting a bit closer and closer until finally it takes it. Some are just so stubborn. You will also have days where you seem to have regressed and gone backwards, no worries it happens but you have to stick to it and keep at it. Persistance is the key, YOU have to win, not the animal.

Now you can begin to regularly do this once to several times a day slowly gaining the animals' trust as it begins to see you as a food source rather than a possible predator or threat of any kind.

Once you're comfortable that the animal is becoming comfortable with you, you can then begin to start handling it.
Now again at first you'll go backwards a ways, it'll thrash and flip out but you cannot put it down at this point. Once you pick it up and have it in your hands you cannot put it down until it calms down. This is VERY important. This is where you cannot let it win with it's defensive behaviours.

Once it has calmed down you can try and offer it that food item again (usually the first few times it'll refuse) and only put it back when it has calmed down and stopped thrashing, or biting, or whipping it's tail. It learns that it can't get put back by freaking out and consistency is the key. If you start putting it back before it's obvious it was on YOUR terms, it just reinforces the defensive behaviour and it will continue to act up or even start acting more aggressive.

You'll be surprised but after a time (different amount of time with each individual) it will cease to flip out and even seem to enjoy being handled as it'll know a treat is coming. It begins to associate the "big hand" with good things. Again you'll have days where you regress but you have to be persistant, and have to keep telling yourself that the lizard can't win. It takes time and persistance but you can do it, some are easier than others.

I had a very ill tempered (and badly taken care of by it's previous owner) Iguana once that took about a year of this, every day, but eventually it does sink in. Hah i had lots of fun explaining my shredded forearms to my work mayes lol.
Some are just more stubborn than others before it dawns on them that you aren't the bad person.

I've also had some wild caught snakes that just took right to it immediately. Of course some herps you can't start with the food thing really, snakes come to mind, but the handling portion is most important.

Hope it helps. Basic handling stuff really but it goes against our every instinct of: "oh he's freaking out i better put him back". By doing that we reinforce that behaviour, what we want to reinforce is the calm behaviour.

Patience is the key. As was said in other posts, the animal perceives us as a threat, and with good reason. If we could see just what it took to get that animal from the wild into our homes we would be shocked. It is not a pretty picture. The first thing I always do with a new animal is talk to it so it gets used to my voice. When I do something in the cage I move slowly and keep talking so they are hopefully not startled. I never grab at them and force them into submission, this usually results in many steps backwards. Once they are not bolting every time they see you, try to gently touch their backs and see what happens. The tasty treat works very well too if you can get them to come to you. There are some animals that just will not like you no matter how hard you try, that's the way it is. My two newest wc mcfads are settling down quite well. I can actually touch them slowly about 70% of the time without them bolting. They will not eat from my hand nor will they eat in front of me yet. I think in time they could be lap uros like my ornates. Just keep trying and accept your guy for what he is. Best of luck.

Pam
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1.1.4 varanus acanthurus brachyurus
1.1 varanus acanthurus acanthurus
1.0 varanus storri
1.1 u. macfadyeni
1.2 u. ornata
1.1 u. ocellata
1.2 rhacodactylus ciliatus
1.1 hyla chrysoscelis

Good looking kid ya have there, and cute pic !
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PHEve/ Eve

Contact PHEve

Yeah i agree with what pgross8245 said, plus i did leave some out after reading back again, simple stuff thet seems obvious but escaped my mind.

I hadn't even thought of it at the time, but i do recall seeing people hold their animals very tightly, and that just won't ever work.
When handling you definitely want to be gentle, you want to support their weight with just enough restraint so they can't escape until they calm down. Talking gently to them at the same time also helps, especially if they've already become used to your voice.
Smooth purposeful movements are the key. No grabbing tightly or quick, jerky movements.
It really depends on how much you want to be able to handle your Uros as well.

Some animals just take a long time, much longer than most might be willing to take to get them to trust you. Their individual personality might just be so stubborn that any normal human would reach the point that they just accept them as such, a stubborn individual. Nothin' wrong with that at all, often you can reach a compromise with those ones. They'll allow certain interactions up to a limit. Like hand feeding but no picking up, or will be picked up if they walk to you, but run if you reach for them etc.

You just have to decide how much time and effort you might be willing to take on those ones, and decide if you're fine where it's at. We don't always need to try and make every one of our critters willing to be handled at all times, it takes way some of their individual charm and personality imo.

So while i believe it's possible, i don't believe it's always necessary.

Spanky

Wild caughts tend to be a bit harder to deal with. That's why a number of care sheets recommend against them for beginners. A lot of responsible importers will raise them for 6 months to a year before they sell them. I'm assuming that is to make them easier to raise for the buyer.