Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

I know many of you are curious about why Scooter appears so *GULP* “tame”… Well, I can only guess that he is at least satisfied with the life he has, even though it is unusual. I would not take any other monitor I have had on a picnic like this. We have gone to the park many times to climb the trees, and never had him try to leave us. This is only our second trip to the canyon. I want to allow Scooter as much enjoyment in his life as I can. Before now, I never had a big enough safe enough place to let him swim. The first time the water was too cold. I can only say that we have spent a lot of time together on his terms. He was probably around 3 feet long when I got him 10 years ago, his body was about the size of my forearm. I don’t dominate him, he hates to be hurried. I am always very gentle, and try to be soft-spoken. Because of Frank’s insistence that a healthy monitor with enough heat is always defensive, I had taken Scooter to our reptile vet, he said Scoot was doing good, no signs of illness. Frank is right though, it is not the norm for healthy monitors to appear tame, and those monitors should absolutely see a vet to be sure they aren’t suffering. He does have some problems because of my faulty husbandry though, He is and always has been a little pudgy, he could use/have used a lot more vertical climbing space/logs and such, he would be slimmer, have better muscle tone, happier feet, and better claw wear. Also occasional shed issues. And of course he is a virgin which is horrible at his age. I tried to give Scooter to Frank once, he told me if I could get him a girl he would bond with he would. I did try, but it was not to be. I just do the best I can with what I have.

Sunday was a lovely day!
I borrowed my ma-in-law’s fabulous camera with the zoom lens. We set Scooter’s bag on the ground unzipped it, he climbed out and flattened out on the hot rocks right next to it. He stayed about 20 minutes and got real toasty, then headed for the water. Woo Hoo!! The first time he has actually gotten to SWIM!! My mate and I had lunch under an umbrella, Scooter spent the entire day in and out of the water. Most of the time half in and half out…lol. He searched the crevices of most of the rocks in our area that were scattered throughout the water, supposedly there were small fish and tadpoles but I didn’t see any. I never actually saw Scooter catch anything. There was much tongue flicking.

This picture makes me ridiculously happy.

Most of where we were was shallow, but Scooter couldn’t resist exploring the deeper spots.

There was a little terrain exploration, but not much. It was all about the water for him today.

How about a shot for size perspective? He looks so fat, I think it’s partly because he is flattened and basking on me. I didn’t specify that I wanted a whole body shot unfortunately so you could see all of him. I was sitting in the middle of the creek on a small rock. I was really really warm, (thank goodness for baby sun block spf 50!!!) Scooter tried to climb up on my rock but there wasn’t enough room, so I helped him out of the water on to me. I am not holding on to him, just supporting his back so he doesn’t have to claw me. After about 10 minutes my muscles started trembling under the weight as I tried to balance us on the rock. He wisely decided his basking perch was becoming unstable and went on his way.

We spent a really long time in the canyon. I wondered if it would be tough to get Scooter home. Apparently he was tired because when we laid out his bag on the beach and called his attention to it, he came out of the water and went in the bag on his own. To tell you the truth I was stunned. I grabbed the camera to get a pic of him climbing in, but the batteries were dead! Now, remember, Scooter is uncomfortable being rushed. It probably took him 15 minutes to think about it, walk up the beach and get in. It was more than worth the wait, I am so glad this outing went so smoothly from beginning to end.

Great shots Holly! I especially like the second one.

NP

your outing made me ridiculously happy aswell!

Wishing you many more lovely adventures,
Sera

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1.0 Red ackie monitor (Frederick)
0.0.1 Bosc's monitor (Normand)
0.1 Chinese water dragon (Basil)
0.0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (Silas)
1.0 Cavi (Gromit)
0.2 Rats (Dolce and Gabbanna)
1.0 Beta (Draco)
0.1 Calico cat (Saffron)
0.1 Red Chicken (Pumpkin)
0.1 Greyhound (Erin)

It is always fun to see them using a bit of their natural abilities. Unfortunatly all my guys get to use is the pool. I would love to let them have a dip in a nice swimming whole like that. Only a few of mine could be trusted to do so though. The others would be gone and hard to catch.

Thanks for sharing and keep them stories coming.

AWESOME
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Ed

These heat lamps make my electric bill to high.

I never once said defensive, that is your word and term. I said, they are monitors, which is kinda like a house cat. They tolerate us, but really have no need for us.

Again, its not a tame or defensive type of thing. For instance, when Nessies mom said she would take Nessie to Lake Elsinore,(a adult nile) I asked, why didn't it simply swim away. Niles can swim a long distance underwater. Again nothing about being tame or getting away, its more like going away. Then she told me that Nessie cannot swim and sat on a floaty. Well, theres a red flag. A nile that cannot swim. If you remember, we had some long discussions over that.

Another example, I am sure George would follow me around for awhile, then he would take interest in something and off he would go. If I tried to stop him, I would take the brunt of his intentions.

As I said, we are only a sum of our experiences and I have never had a monitor and I have lots, that did not have a mind of its own. It does not matter if its tame or not. In fact, the tamer they are, the more they express their intentions.

Heres another example, how often do you take your monitor for a car ride, I assume you drive to the canyon. Well I do not have a single monitor that would tolerate that.

And please do not take it in any adverse way. I simply do not understand that, am I right or wrong, who cares, I just don't understand it. So what do I think, I think give me that thing and I would wild it up in a country minute. Remember, I did not say mean or defensive, just to be a monitor. Kinda like a ferret, if a ferret does not root around, then is it a ferret, same with monitors. Cheers FR

Defensive is not the right word. Scooter does have a mind of his own, and he does do what he wants as much as any captive animal can. If he had wanted to leave, he could have. He is a fast and powerful swimmer and was all over the creek Sunday. For some reason what he wants includes have someone is knows somewhere nearby (within maybe a 30-40 foot radius) Maybe he feels we are protection? I really don’t know. I do know you have had more monitors than you can count and I have found your posts very valuable, it does worry me that you have had no monitors like him. Scooter has always had a fairly relaxed personality for a monitor, since the first day I had him. Of course, I had noooooo idea what I was getting into then.

What?!??!!?? Nessie couldn’t swim??? I didn’t know that, how odd! I don’t believe I was ever part of that discussion. If I had put Scooter in the water and found he couldn’t swim, I would have taken him right back to the vet. We went and visited Nessies family a few years ago. It was a very fun time. They had many animals that were allowed to interact with each other. I suspect they had their share of squabbles, there were quite a few big dogs in the group. I never got that close to Nessie, he was riled up cause the dogs were riled up so I kept my distance.

I don’t think Scooter is tame, I think I am the one who is tame. I think he knows when he sees me something good is usually on its way to him, that’s the only answer for his attachment to me that I can come up with. I do often wish he could experience a more monitorish lifestyle on the whole.

Here you go again offering to take him….lol I have said this before, if you are serious I will give him to you, (I will even pay for his arthritis meds for the rest of his life) I would love to let him experience what your monitors seem to thrive on. You are the only one who seems to be able to offer him more than a tiny enclosure. I have looked for a better place for him, I want him to have a fuller monitor life. We are in the process of saving money for our own property. The goal is to move after graduation, but that is nearly a year and a half away still. If he lives to see it, I hope to give him a room in the house specially made for him, and a greenhouse/enclosure outside with his own pond. Seems like a million years away…. Makes me sad.

Anyway, sorry to misquote you. Your thoughts and comments are always welcome.
-H-

Hi FR and Holly,
It's been a while but I still like coming to this forum and reading the messages...and then I came across this one: "For instance, when Nessies mom said she would take Nessie to Lake Elsinore,(a adult nile) I asked, why didn't it simply swim away. Niles can swim a long distance underwater. Again nothing about being tame or getting away, its more like going away. Then she told me that Nessie cannot swim and sat on a floaty." I don't recall EVER having told you Nessie COULDN'T swim. I think you concluded that from the pics I have posted showing Nessie on a boogie board. Nessie could swim faster to shore than Bruce and I put together - he swam like a snake! When we took Nessie out to the lake, we liked to hang out in the chest-deep area and Nessie didn't really care (because he had a mind of his own) to just lay out there floating (plus the weight of his tail kept sinking thus causing him to swim away back to shore) so we had him on the boogie board. When we were ready to come in, we'd turn the board towards shore, Nessie would slide off and swim to shore. He would go right up to the spot at the shore where we had set up and lay in the shade.
When we took Nessie to Silverado Canyon, there was this running creek that we always settled at. Nessie would explore the banks, swim around in the shallow water, and bask on the rocks for what seemed like hours. Holly, I know exactly what you were feeling watching Scooter do his thing in the canyon. You probably sat back quietly and just "absorbed" all the amazement and admiration you have for such a beautiful creature you've nurtured for the last 10 years. What I'd give to have a moment like that with Nessie again, but I can't because he's gone, it was 2 years, Feb. 11th. I say enjoy every moment you can with Scooter, if not interacting with him, observing him, because there will never be another one like him, ever. As for you Frank, we all know you were a monitor lizard in an earlier life and that's probably why you are always wanting us to let our "dragons go wild." No offense to you, I hold the highest respect for your monitor knowledge, but you'll never be able to grasp the emotional revelation that I, and in this case, Holly, have had the joy in experiencing. Besides, who knows what kind of life Scooter, or, in my case, Nessie, would have had if they had not been in our care? We just do our best to make their life as pleasant and non-stressful as we can so they can enjoy it to its fullest.
Take care,
Nessie's Mom
P.S. Frank, also for your info, Nessie was an ornate, not a nile.

Wow, long time eh? Hope all is happy in your spot of sun I stopped coming here altogether for a few years, just a few months ago I somehow got sucked back in....hahaha

I often think how close we came to becoming neighbors, That house we looked at the day we visited was incredible, and so modestly priced!!! But alas, we were beat out by someone else, it was not meant to be. However..... That area is still on the short list of choices where we will be hunting for a house to purchase My sweetie promised me property so I can give my lizards (and perhaps a few more.... who knows?) the room to have everything they need.

lol, I’m glad to find out Nessie could swim, An ornate that cannot swim is definitely not right.
*hug* Cheers! –H-

Hi Nessiesmom. Hows it been? I have been fine, or good, or well I could never be fine, how about OK.

Now, you need to get your security on, as opposed to insecurity. As I have always supported you, haven't I?????? Of course we are allowed to disagree on what a healthy active monitor is. How could we not. But whether we agree or not, It has nothing to do with the great job you did and the care you took.

I am allowed to think monitors have different degrees of monitorism. And that these degrees are brought about by conditions. Even in nature, they have different degrees, like in cool weather, large monitors simply do not run, the reason is, they cannot run. The cannot because they are not fully heated up. With the same monitor on a hot day, you would only see a dust trail as it disappeared.

You and Holly should understand, that I have a different view on monitors, how could I not? I keep them so much differently and I have seen lots of wild monitors. Also, you do understand that people like Daniel Bennett, had/has a very hard time identifying "monitors in boxes" as monitors. The reason is simple, he has seen what the real ones and what they act like. Those are monitors. All I did is take the magic out of it. I would keep changing cage conditions until the enclosed monitors, became similiar to wild monitors of the same species in nature.

Please understand, it has nothing to do with tame or not. That has not a single thing to do with it. I know monitors can and are tame, and how how they are has nothing to do with it. But how cool they are surely does effect their ability to make decisions and perform physical movements.

So Please don't make it about agreeing or disagreeing. Or you or I thinking our way is/was the only way. I do not care about how people keep their animals, I do care about their intentions and your intentions have always been of the highest calibur. So has Hollys. You should understand I love tame monitors, as long as they act like monitors. FR

Just fabulous photos of a monitor in a natural setting!

But I'm scratching my head about why he stuck around...
its really freaky..

Didn't you once post about Scooter being sick, and the vet telling you he had bad arthritis? Well, he's obviously recovered from the respiratory illness, but do you think the arthritis condition(and being ummm, thick) makes him hang around a known food source(you two)? I think they will do what they can to ensure survival.
I hope I'm not being offensive, its not my intent. I'm just sure there is a logical reason somewhere for Scooter being different.

Glad you all had fun!
D.

Hi there sis, lol

Well, I suspect you are right, he is older. The resp. illness was cleared up within a few weeks. Scooter takes meds everyday for his arthritis and it does help noticeably. I put the meds in food, on occasion he shakes them out or punctures the capsules and looses some of the med, but it is meat flavored inside. I have seen him pick up the capsules and eat them after the fact, but that is very hard for him cause they stick to the roof of his mouth. Last time I gave him an egg I almost forgot the meds. I wound up scooping up some loose egg goo in a spoon and dropping the meds in that. He ate them right out of the spoon no problem. When it's rainy and cold outside he prefers to stay in his warm hide and usually doesn't accept food. I can see he appears stiffer when he misses a few doses. The vet said arthritis is painful, but not fatal. He said the meds would help a lot and he was right. Scooter has been sick twice in his life but he has seen the vet many times. The times he was actually sick the vet visits were over $500.00.

I should have gotten a picture of the size of the creek/stream, it's quite large not to mention beautiful. Next time
I really can't guess why he sticks around where we are, I'm just glad he does.
Cheers, -H-

Scooter is absolutely beautiful!! I love your pictures, they are very nice. I just can't imagine how you can do that, but it is awesome for you. Thank you for sharing your beautiful monitor with us.

Pam
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1.1.4 varanus acanthurus brachyurus
1.1 varanus acanthurus acanthurus
1.0 varanus storri
1.1 u. macfadyeni
1.2 u. ornata
1.1 u. ocellata
1.2 rhacodactylus ciliatus
1.1 hyla chrysoscelis

I wish I could do something like that with mine. If I tried, it would be the last time I saw them.
Ahh, so is life. Scooter is a good looking lizard and you aint bad either now that you shaved and trimmed the eyebrows.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Marvelous pictures, and a truly amazing monitor! I love the swimming picture. Seeing you with Scooter, I am reminded of my husband's frequent comment that 'all animals would rather live with people.'

I frequently see articles on how zoos are trying to find unusual things to enrich their captives' existance. Apparently Scooter does well with the type of 'enrichment' you provide.

Thanks again for the pics!

Leslie

Hi Leslie
I really do enjoy photography, the camera I borrowed is awesome. I think Scooters biggest problem is boredom. I have done some insanely crazy things to help him exercise and fight a humdrum existence. Including but not limited to, letting him chase me around our living room, mouth agape for food. He had a pretty sedentary life for a few years in there and got a bit too girthy. I used to just give him a plate of food most of the time. Sometimes we played games but not often enough, like a live mouse in a paper bag, (he got very good at this) catching crickets, or crawdads in water. It took him a bit ( a few days) to figure out I was ASKING him to chase me, but once he figured it out he really gave me a run for my money. I think it was like 15-20 laps a mouse exercise to food ratio. We would both be out of breath when it was all over. Sometimes I can’t believe I did that. This exercise drastically slowed then stopped after we found out about the arthritis.

Seeing him swimming is indescribable. I find him so beautiful.

His almost friendly demeanor has a downside. This is an animal designed to be aggressive, a predator, on the hunt, not a house cat. I was a moron back then, someone talked me into buying him on impulse. If there is nothing to hunt, and nothing to fear….. as a captive what do you do? And he is mateless, an old virgin with no prospects!!! it breaks my heart.

He was suppose to be a pet for my son (how stupid was that, he was 7!!!) But I was the one who fell love with this beautiful animal.
-H-

The swimming probably is the best sort of exercise for him, with the arthritis. Being weightless in water makes movement much easier. (As someone disabled with back problems, I can testify to that!)

I never thought of the mouse in the paper bag. Will have to try that with Bubba, my sav, and with my red tegus as well. What a wonderful idea! (I used to play soccer with my mini stallion. He would chase the ball, pushing it with his nose, then send it in my direction and stop, all poised to have me kick it back to him so he could run with it again. Of course, I also have an old cutting horse with whom I used to play cutting games; I'd cut him off, and he would try to get past, and vice versa. Used to unnerve my husband, as the horse weighs 1200 pounds! But he's getting old, and so am I.

Leslie)

The best kinds of bags are the thinner medium sized ones, like you get at a liquor store. This may seem weird but smell the bag before you use it. Even new bags can get this chemical or moldy smell. I think it has something to do with having been exposed to moisture. Anyway, don’t get discouraged if they all seem to stink I went out to lunch with my mum the other day, claim jumpers had great smelling take-out bags (no smell at all) so I swiped 3..lol. If you keep the bags in your lizard room, put them in a Ziplock so any humidity about won’t wreck them. Oh, Scooter never tried to eat any of the bag, but I wouldn’t put it past some of em. Did you see Drzriders post below? His little nile thinking about eating a lighter…. Couldn’t have tasted very edible. On a rare occasion Scooter tears the bag, but most of the time he pushes with his nose and claws at it to get the top open, then sticks his head in the bag to strike. I would be interested to hear what kind of technique yours use to get the mouse. When scooter first tried it, it took him about 15 minutes, after some practice he whittled his time down to about 2 minutes. Goodluck!

You are a lucky gal to have horses!! Did you ever feel nervous with the big guy? They sound like really neat animals.
Thanks for sharing, -H-

Thanks for the bag info. I can't wait to try it. I think that the sav, Bubba, will probably try to eat it bag and all. He has little patience where food is concerned. The big red tegu male will probably go on a 'fact finding mission.' He was out tonight, and I tosed one of the cat balls for him. He chased it and picked it up, and then looked at me. For a minute I thought he was going to bring it back to me, but he nudged it a few times, I think to try to get it to move again, then ignored it.

No, I'm never nervous with my old boy, Cody, but my young warmblood I am more careful with, just because he is still young and macho and stupid. When he was about two he was trying to be macho with my husband's 2400 pound draft horse, and the drafter had to exert his 'alpha' status. The youngster came over near where my husband and I were sitting in chairs by the fence, and the drafter sort of blocked the young horse's retreat. Silly fool ran straight down the fence line at us and JUMPED both my husband and I sitting in the chairs. Scared the bejeebers out of me, but no hoof touched us. Everyone always says never let a horse know he is stronger than you are... believe me, they know it; especially the big drafters. They're just very careful not to hurt their humans. Thankfully.

Leslie

Im glad to see someone else that has a monitor that really likes their owner and sees them as family more than just food provider.
If Sobek wasnt as friendly (and Id venture to call her affectionate), she would be very very difficult to deal with. I put her in the back yard, let her roam, if something catches her attention and she decides to pursue (a rabbit), I might have to interceded or she would be eating wild food also. She roams for as long as I have time to or until she heads to the back doors then scratches to be let in or I open it and she goes in on her own. I have no fences, my neighbor has thick brush and trees, so everything except her hides there, the rest is open except the deep grassy field behind us, she stays away from that to.

Hi Holly.

I'm just visiting this forum today; I don't have any monitors now but I had a water monitor for a while many years ago.

I thoroughly enjoyed your post and pictures. Great stuff! Gave me a big smile. Thanks.

Regards,

Bill