Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a ten inch Panamint in a 10 g. aquarium with a sliding screen lid that has a pin to keep it closed. Is this set up concidered secured? I have no children in the house and I always give it a tug ater going in to make sure it is properly "locked."

I ask this because I was told that this was insuffient at another site and would like a second opinion.

The security of the lid isn't the issue really. The problem is how easy it is to break a cheap aquarium (which most 10 gallon aquariums are).

There may also be legal issues depending on where you live. Here in Florida there are specific caging requirements. One of the approved materials is 1/4 inch or thicker plate glass. I've never seen a 10 gallon aquarium that thick.

I agree with Larry. Build or buy a cage that has thicker glass or Plexiglas. If that aquarium got knocked over, it would break too easily.

~~Greg~~

Knocked over? Do you guys have wrestling matches in your snake rooms?
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

>>Knocked over? Do you guys have wrestling matches in your snake rooms?

Not usually, but you can always find some way to break something so large and fragile... Trip over something and put your head through it, knock over a broom that you have standing against the wall and have the handle hit the glass... I bumped into the TV, had it fall off the dresser, bounce on the bed and totally obliterate the aqaurium I had sitting on the bed to clean (just a ratsnake, and somehow it wasn't hurt). You get the idea.

This type of set up has failed and failed again with harmless snakes so I wouldn't take any chances with a venomous. This just isn't a responsible and proper way to house a venomous snake. Ideally, you want the glass to be 1/4" (minimum) tempered glass and the cage MUST be able to be locked (with a lock and key); anything less is just not a responsible option in my opinion. There are many nice commercially available cages available to you; check those out or make something that is very solidly built.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>I have a ten inch Panamint in a 10 g. aquarium with a sliding screen lid that has a pin to keep it closed. Is this set up concidered secured? I have no children in the house and I always give it a tug ater going in to make sure it is properly "locked."
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

especially the sliding ones with the pin are not a good idea. The metal screen is cheap and flimsy. My cat easily punctured holes in one using it as a scratch post. Fangs will easily penetrate them and if your hand is sitting on the screen at any given time you are in danger of being bitten. Don't think this can't or won't happen either, as several keepers have learned the hard way that most screen tops (especially the one you mentioned) aren't fit for the job.

That being said, there are some well-known and respected keepers who do use screen top lids. I just personally don't feel they are adequate for any front-fanged venomous snake, especially a viperid.

I have not heard any concerns about the screen top. That would bother me more than the glass thickness. With their heat sensing pits and a single screen top, envenomation is very possible.

>>I have not heard any concerns about the screen top. That would bother me more than the glass thickness. With their heat sensing pits and a single screen top, envenomation is very possible.

I didn't mention the screen because he was talking about a 10 inch snake...

In my younger (read that STUPIDER) days, I once had a prairie rattlesnake housed in an enclouser with a screen lid....Well, this snake wasn't the friendliest snake in the world, and I remember very distinctly moving the enclosure one day and him striking at me through the screen top and having my chest sprayed with venom...Needless to say, after that screen tops were a thing of the past for me....

My advice? Invest in a solid enclosure! It's well worth the money!

-AzAtrox

n/p

Truly sorry about that. You beat me to the screen concern but I was typing it out when you posted it. Our posts are about 7 minutes apart.

It is possible to convert a 10 gallon aquarium into a reinforced, acceptable cage for a small crotalid.
I have an article that I wrote describing how to do the conversion.
It involves attaching a board to the bottom to protect the glass there, metal struts that protect the corners and seams, and a sliding double screened lid to protect from through the screen envenomation.
If you are interested in the plans, you can email me at Buzztail1@hotmail.com
Commercial single screen lids secured by pins are not safe enough for venomous snakes. Most glass aquariums (not reinforced) will break when dropped. I have dropped my reinforced cages from 3 feet above the concrete driveway (not recommended with a snake in the cage) and the glass did not even crack.
All that said, a good Neodesha is hard to beat.
Good luck with your snake, whichever way you go.
R/
Karl H. Betz

I would agree with Buzztail1, ten gallon tanks can be converted into safe enclosures for a small crotalidae. I have a similar design for the lid that has a key lock as well.

What's amusing is how many people state that the sliding screen with a pin is unsafe for any venomous. I absolutely agree. The funny part is I know of at least one AZA zoo in Texas that has reserve cages with sliding screen lids in commercially made tanks with less than 1/4" glass.
They had 4 foot atrox, 5 foot naja, other elapidae and even bitis in these type cages.

I am not saying that they were PROPER by any stretch of the imagination. They would have been breaking several state laws if they were elsewhere (ex. FL, OK, etc).

I'm just amused as to how the zoo people think they are so much safer. Grant it, they don't sell hot snakes to inexperienced18 year old kids ( or even 40 year old inexperienced idiots) like some of our fellow hobbyists.

Anyway back on topic, I would say that a 10" crote in a 10 gallon is fine if you modify the lid (meaning build a better one the has a key lock and double screen).

Good luck,

T.C.
TCH Zoological

One of the things that I learned during my "behind-the-scenes" visits at various zoos is how underfunded they are.
This usually leads to the use of substandard caging and equipment for use outside "the public eye".
I am not defending the use of such equipment. Merely stating that the lack of funding is often a contributing factor. I personally try to donate equipment and caging (or ideas for each) whenever I can. Most zoo keepers that I have met and worked with have been very receptive and friendly.
Karl H. Betz

The zoo that I was referring to was my former employer. I was a keeper in herps. You don't have to tell me why the caging was sub-standard..lol. .

Regards,

T.C.