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In an earlier response to a post you said that over time one could become hypersensitive to the venom. How does that work? I was under the impression that you would develop an immunity to it. If you could enlighten me on this subject I would appreciate it. Also, what classification would hognose venom fall under if that is known. Thanks. EP

In an earlier response to a post you said that over time one could become hypersensitive to the venom. How does that work? I was under the impression that you would develop an immunity to it.

Not enough room here for a complete introduction to immunology, but here is a simplified version.....

Any foreign materials (particularly proteins) that enter your body in sufficient quantity will trigger an immune response.
Sometimes that immune response will involve the production of certain types of molecules like class G immunoglobulins (or antibodies). In this case, exposure will confer some immunity to the material in the future because the antibodies present in your system will help remove the foreign material before it can do damage.

However, other types if immune responses (called hypersensitivity responses) can trigger the production of other types of immune receptors, like class E immunoglobulins or sensitized T-cells. The problem with hypersensitivity responses is that the body "overreacts" to the invading material and damages its own tissues in an effort to get rid of the foreign stuff. They type of damage produced depends the class of response and the nature of the foreign material.

A common example would be allergies to tree pollens. Tree pollen is completely harmless, but some people's immune systems overreact to this harmless material releasing chemicals which result in allergy symptoms.

Another example would include poison ivy/oak sensitivity. It isn't the oils produced by the plant that cause the inflammation, itching, and pustules to form. Rather, it is the overreaction by your T-cells to the presence of an otherwise harmless plant oil. Your T-cells are damaging your tissues, not the plant oil.

A tuberculin skin test is another type of response that uses hypersensitivity to see if you have been previously exposed to Tuberculosis. If you have been exposed, you get a raised itchy red welt where the material is injected becuase your immune system "overreacts".

These things don't seem that big a deal, but one type of hypersensitivity is called anaphylaxis. Systemic anaphylaxis can be triggered by small amounts of a chemical to which the body has been previously sensitized. Systemic anaphylaxis can be fatal in just a few minutes due to inability to breath (because of bronchial constriction) and a drastic drop in blood pressure. This is what happens to people who get overly sensitized to bee stings, or even snake antivenin. Anaphylactic reactions kill people every year in this country.

The point is, I wouldn't deliberately be introducing hognose saliva into yourself. It probably wouldn't cause an anaphylactic type response in most people, but it could. I would avoid it as much as possible so that your body never becomes hypersensitive.
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Chris Harrison

Thanks, thats some very interesting material. Over what kind of a time period (on average if thats known) are you talking about being exposed to a certain venom before something like that would happen? I dont know if youve seen it or not but there is a guy who deals with venomous snakes and injects himself every day or week with small amounts of venom, but not directly in his veins. I think hes been doing it for years and hasnt had any problems. Im not sure that its necassarily helped him either. Is he just lucky not to have become hypersensitive or is it a low number of people who this happens to? One last thing, is anything known about how much "venom" a hognose can/does inject and do they control that amount depending on the situation: feeding, defense, and just plain chewing Thanks for the info. EP

People do self-immunize... but on the other hand...
I was just reading a thread, and I can't find it now, but it was about a guy in Europe who worked with vipers, and after being bitten a few times, he became so allergic that his face swelled up when handling shed skins. This sort of thing is apparently quite common among venom researchers also. Snake venom is just a thing that's pretty likely to give you allergies. I don't know if it's actually happened to a hognose keeper yet (most hoggies won't bite), but it's well within the realm of possibility.

Over what kind of a time period (on average if thats known) are you talking about being exposed to a certain venom before something like that would happen?

There are too many variables involved to be able to predict the outcome. For example, I went into anaphylactic shock when I was injected with antivenin the very first (and only) time for a Crotalus triseriatus bite. The bite wasn't that serious, the reaction to the antivenin could have killed me had I not been in a hospital at the time. This was probably a result of being exposed to other horse based sera earlier in my life (such as anti-tetanus sera).

Generally it takes several exposures to develop severe Type I reactions, but it can occur on the second exposure if the original exposure is serious enough. It depends on the person and the foreign material.

I dont know if youve seen it or not but there is a guy who deals with venomous snakes and injects himself every day or week with small amounts of venom, but not directly in his veins. I think hes been doing it for years and hasnt had any problems. Im not sure that its necassarily helped him either.

Several people have done this, most notable Bill Haast of the Miami Serpentarium. It probably has saved Haast's life on a number of occasions. But, he could also have died 30 years ago from a Type I hypersensitivity reaction after the third or fourth dose. Then how would we view the process?

Is he just lucky not to have become hypersensitive or is it a low number of people who this happens to?

Everyone is different in the way they respond to allergens. It isn't really any different than the fact that some people get hayfever and others don't.

A very few people can have violent, negative, potentially fatal responses to specific allergens. There is no way to predict how you will respond (although there is some hint of a genetic link due to the fact that many family members share the same allergies). But in reality, there is simply no way to predict what will happen in any individual case.

One last thing, is anything known about how much "venom" a hognose can/does inject and do they control that amount depending on the situation: feeding, defense, and just plain chewing

The problem with hogs is that I have never heard of anyone being bitten by a hog as a defensive reaction. There have been a few people grazed by a tooth as the hog did its bluff lunge, but they simply don't bite is self defense.
Every bite I have ever heard of was a stupid feeding error on the part of the handler. Those bites are likely to be serious as the hog is more likely to chew to subdue to "prey item".
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Chris Harrison

Im finding all of this very interesting so please bare with me. I googled hognose venom and didnt really find anything too much different. There is an article on hognose dot com about it thats pretty good. Are studies still being done on this subject? I assume that there are, it just seems like I havent really seen anything new in a while. Is it possible to milk a hognose? It seems like there is some confusion as to whether or not they can deliver venom through the teeth or if they have to chew and it just aids the saliva in getting into the bite. Do you personally work with hognose or is it just a hobby for you. I realize this is a bit jumpy; my computer went out and I lost my other post so im just trying to finish this quickly. Anyway thanks for all of the info. Later, EP

I have 1.1 nasicus from Lubbock Texas and 2.0 kennerlyi from the Davis Mts of TX.

I have kept and bred nasicus ssp for years off and on, although I have never had more than one or two pairs at a time.

I used to keep and breed easterns, until I discovered westerns!
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Chris Harrison