Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ive noticed in getting pics for my site that Eastern Kings tend to be found in more in south central GA and into s western GA. While the south eastern GA has a few sightings they are considerbaly less. Is there less suitable habitat there ? Any ideas from you guys who live or herp in Georgia ??? I whipped up a map of the animal from my site that are wild only so no cb animals are represented. Each dot is a single sighting. This map isnt evidence that more Easterns live here than there just whats represented on my site.

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Don't know about lately . . .but you could have a lot more dots along the east coast if I would have taken some pics of the animals I found in the eighties and early nineties (used to live there for six years). . .From about Hinesville south to Kingsland I have found a good number of eastern kings with most of them being found around Brunswick GA.

Zee

Zee, I haven't herped that area of Georgia yet but I've heard there isn't a whole lot of tin/cover to flip. I was curious as to how you found EKs when you lived there. Thanks!

Sean

But like you said. . .It takes tin, carpets, boards. The morning I found those five adults I was in one of the few areas that did have a decent amount of cover, an abandoned railroad bed (near Brunswick), that had been littered mostly with carpets, boards and tarps. I found four of them in carpets and one under a large board that morning. I also found five canebrakes and a scarlet king during that morning.
In SE. GA. you can also find Kings basking from around 9-10 o'clock from Mid April to about Mid May. I found a few nice ones that way. Once you live there as long as I had, you'll still find some mini-dumps. Some of the mini-dumps I found 10 years ago are still there!

Zee

I think I have a good part of the answer in one word...

DRYMARCHON

Southeast GA still holds a very healthy population of indigo snakes. The 2 species of large colubrids that eat just about anything would occupy the same "niche" I suppose.

Where the indigos are holding strong, they still regin suprmeme.
and...give the getula some credit, they are smart enough to stay the hell away from the seek and destroy mentality...eat-first-ask-questions later...fast moving, high metabolism always hungry indigo snakes....lest they become but a few black and white scales in a scat pile on the sandhill!

Seriously...I think there is something to that. Kingsnakes have managed to become top of the omnivorous snake food chain in many areas and are certainly more adapable to changing habitat than are indigos. I would be that there is a direct coorelation to the habitat, with indigos in the SE ruling the pristine, non-fragmented, large-tracks of non-developed land, and the kings doing nuch better in dusturbed and / or fragmented habitat.

I dont know if I buy that Dean. One reason is there are Kingsall over Florida where Indigo's can still be found. The other is there are still Kings in that neck of the woods as per Zee and others that have emailed me. I think its just not as easy to find them. Plus everyone knows an Indigo would get its ass kicked by a Eastern . LOL (sorta kiddin')

Keith
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Although there are certainly areas where they co-exist, I have another example...the KSC study site in east central Florida which has a very large breeding population of indigos, and lots of varied habitat from scrub and sandhills to canals, wetland...etc...The lead researcher on that project who has spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours in the field studying the indigos over a period of over 6 years, told me last year that she has NEVER seen a Florida king in the field in the entire study area!

Same situation in the SE GA study site, where the indigos abound...not a king snake to be found by the researchers who spend every day in the field collecting data. This is directly from the mouths of the folks who spend the time out there.

Up here...in central KY, you get corn snakes in large numbers in some areas, black kings in great numbers in others...similar habitat, but you almost never find them in the exact same spots.

It could be that some species in some regions have learned to avoid one another, and co-exist in others. It's a mystery...but then explain to me why the "coastal plains" milk is a scarlet king eastern milk integrade...while the 2 species co-exist in KY
with no evidence of integration?

oh, and...I don't want to go down that which snake would whip the other again...that issue has been beaten to death!

I agree with you, because when walking through the woods at Ft. Stewart (a place with a healthy Indigo population) during Army training, I only saw ONE Eastern King in six years that somehow avoided the BIG BAD INDI-JOES! I saw him out in the open around 10 o'clock in the morning hours in a heavily wooded/boggy area in June. I was amazed to see one there. But as soon as you got closer to town (or other towns) Kingsnakes WERE much more commmon than on post - easily!
So therefore I would have to agree somewhat, unless there are Indigos around Brunswick/Darien/Kingsland???

Zee

Same situation in the SE GA study site, where the indigos abound...not a king snake to be found by the researchers who spend every day in the field collecting data. This is directly from the mouths of the folks who spend the time out there.

Is this the Camp Ground site in which there are Gopher Tortoise burrows everywhere? I didn't want to put the name up on here but can email it to you Dean so you know we're talking about the right one. Anyway, if it's the same one I'm thinking of, an Eastern King was found within 5 miles of that campground this year. That campground is on higherground it seems with more of the habitat being sandy, scrub. The king was found around Pine forest in a lower, wetter area.

Although indigos like the sandy, dry uplands, they use all habitats including wetlands in the warmer months.

I don't think it's as much an issue of the type of habitat as much as it needs to be non-fragmented and vast to sustain heatly indigo populations long-term.

Kingsnakes, which do not ave the vast ranges of indigos, may do just fine in "pockets" of habitat.

I would venture to guess that where the vast habitat that indigos prefer still exisits, and actually HAS indigo populations...well...this is where the kings are going to be very sparse.

Just wanted to let you guys know I really enjoyed this thread. Nice to see people can have differant oppinions and not resort to name calling. Keep up the great posts!