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Hi everyone. I had a question about my radiated rat that I am treating for mites. I have her down on news paper while I am treating her. She is going into shed and I am concerned that one she will be infested under her old skin, and two is it okay to get the humidity up in her tank to help her shed? I wasn't sure if this would make my small mite problem into a large one.
Thanks, Kim
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0.1 radiated rat(100% het albino)
1.0 okeetee corn
1.1 ball python
0.0.1 chinese water dragon

How are you treating it? It has been a long time (years) since I have treated for mites, but I used to get a product called "No Pest Strip". You can buy it at hardware stores. I alwasys got it at Westlake. It is an about 8" by 3" strip that I would cut just a 1" by 1" piece off and put it in a film container with a bunch of holes poked in it. I didn't change my caretaking at all. I would leave it thier cage for a week or so not longer though, because I've heard that it can have effects on the snake. It always took care of all of them for me. Like I said, I haven't done this for years, so someone might have a more updated way to do it. Hope some of this helps. Tom
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1.0 Albino Bumese
1.0 Columbian Boa
1.0 Mexican King
1.1 Alterna Gray Bands
2.1 Speckled Kings (1 albino pair)
1.0 Melanistic? California King
1.1 Bull Snakes
1.1 Red Milks
1.1 Black Pines
1.0 Red Northern Pine
0.1 Mexican Black King

I'm treating her with reptile relief spray. I had gone crying to my friends at the local herp store and thats what they gave me to use. I've had snakes for a few years and this is my first case of mites. I've never heard of that stuff before. Is it like fly stips? If so could it cause injury to my snake? She is still young.
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0.1 radiated rat(100% het albino)
1.0 okeetee corn
1.1 ball python
0.0.1 chinese water dragon

I have used it on all ages of snakes at one point, also have forgotten and left it in alot longer than I was supposed to and had no ill effects on the snake. In my experiences with it I would defenitely use it again if I had an outbreak. Although, I would hate for you to try it and something go wrong. Hopefully someone else will chime in and tell you yes, or no. Here is a link with it on there. Best of Luck! Tom
Link

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1.0 Albino Bumese
1.0 Columbian Boa
1.0 Mexican King
1.1 Alterna Gray Bands
2.1 Speckled Kings (1 albino pair)
1.0 Melanistic? California King
1.1 Bull Snakes
1.1 Red Milks
1.1 Black Pines
1.0 Red Northern Pine
0.1 Mexican Black King

Thanks for the help. What about the humidity? Does anyone know if it will cause problems?
Kim
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0.1 radiated rat(100% het albino)
1.0 okeetee corn
1.1 ball python
0.0.1 chinese water dragon

I don't know anything about Reptile Relief, but I wouldn't think changing the humidity would matter. One more thing. Is it something that you spray on the snake only, because mites will be in every nook and cranny of her enclosure. If you get them off her and put her back in her cage without completely cleaning and sanitizing it, they will just crawl back on her. I would remove everything (hide boxes, logs, substrate, etc.) and keep her in quarrantine until she is cured. I have had mites start with one snake and literally spread across the room into other snakes cages.. That is another reason I used that strip, because it kills off all of them in the cage and everything. Enough rambling.. Good Luck
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1.0 Albino Bumese
1.0 Columbian Boa
1.0 Mexican King
1.1 Alterna Gray Bands
2.1 Speckled Kings (1 albino pair)
1.0 Melanistic? California King
1.1 Bull Snakes
1.1 Red Milks
1.1 Black Pines
1.0 Red Northern Pine
0.1 Mexican Black King

Yes you spray it on. I spray her and cage every other day and bleach the cage. I only found one on her last night so I'm hopeing they are almost gone. I usually keep her on forest bed with branches to climb on and stuff. Now she's stuck on news paper with small hide and little water dish. I don't think she's too happy with me. LOL I think I might try those strips. See how many might be hideing in the paper. See I ramble too. LOL
Thanks again Kim
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0.1 radiated rat(100% het albino)
1.0 okeetee corn
1.1 ball python
0.0.1 chinese water dragon

According to Dave and Tracy Barker's website,(http://www.vpi.com) mite eggs take up to 4 days to hatch. Keep a close eye on the snakes and cage for at least that long. They tend to lay their eggs high in the cage so be sure to spray the top and sides as well as the bottom. They also recommend soakling the snake in warm lightly soapy water for 8-10 hours. The soap breaks the surface tension of the water and allows the mites to drown easier.

You are right in thinking that hi humidity helps mites survive, but only when it is not on a host. Give your snake a bowl to soak in, and treat the mites after the shed. There is a lot of info on treating mites on line. The NO-Pest strip method does work, but you have to use care. You could end up poisoning your snake.

Here are some links for you on the subject of mites.

http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/thewaragainstsnakemites/Mites-KnowTheEnemy.htm

http://www.animalhospitals-usa.com/reptiles/snake_diseases_parasitic.html

http://coloherp.org/cb-news/Vol-28/cbn-0101/SnakeMites.html

http://www.geocities.com/thearkfiles/mites2.html

http://www.icomm.ca/dragon/mitetick.htm#eradicating

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?dept_id=0&siteid=8&acatid=382&aid=814

http://www.anapsid.org/mites.html

Anyplace with a lawn and garden shop has 5 or 10% sevin dust.It's a dry white powder.After your snakes sheds sprinkle some sevin dust inside the cage.Give it 20 minutes then take the snake out and put it in a tupperware with some light sevin dust sprinkled in.Make sure you get a nice light film all over.Let him stay there until your finished cleaning the living crap out of your cage.I use to fill my cages up with the hottest water possible with a little bleach thrown in.After you have dried the cage, sprinkle some sevin dust in the bottom and cover it with newpaper.You can keep your waterbowl in there it wont hurt anything.There will be mites that made it out of your cage before the treatment.You would be surprised how far they can travel to lay eggs.These guys will come back to haunt you.So what I do is sprinkle the dust along the top edges and under the cage.It wont make a big mess.I always leave the dust in the bottom,under,top for 2 weeks.This has been failproof for me for over 20 years.I used to use no pest strips with it but I dont want to take a chance with it anymore...Paul

Just a FYI... make sure you don't get any sevin dust in the water bowl. This is harmful if it is ingested.

Sevin 5% dust is also useful to treat fleas on dogs and cats. You can also put it on all fruit and veggie plants... it's pretty awesome stuff.
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Chondros and colubrids... my 2 favorite types of snakes!

"Life is hard. Life is harder if you're stupid." - John Wayne

I like this product because it's very safe when dry, and can be used on my entire collection, 24 cages, several times per can. It's expensive, but my collection is worth it, if something gets in. Just spray the cage and put furnishings and snakes back in after a couple hours and everything is dry. Do again in ten days, in case there's a hatch, and you shouldn't have any more problems. I use it preventatively now, treating a cage when getting something new, and haven't had a problem since.

P-A-M

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Ratsnake Haven: Great Plains ratsnakes, Cali kings, and a few Eurasian ratsnakes

Is the same stuff as that provent a mite but costs about 5 bucks a can at the drug store. And works the same also.

Dan

Thats what i used a lice spray that kills lice, ticks fleas and dust mites worked awesome, never seen a mite since. Good Luck!
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-Doug Daly

"Aren't you two a little old to be drinking illegally?"

0.1.0 Leucistic Texas Rat Snake (Elaphe Obsoleta lindheimerii)

www.petitiononline.com/hhogs05/petition.html

Thank you everyone for all your help. I can believe how everyone helps eachother out here.
Kim
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0.1 radiated rat(100% het albino)
1.0 okeetee corn
1.1 ball python
0.0.1 chinese water dragon

Here's what Promist says about their product....

RE: Starting to shed?

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Provent-a-mite is a unique, patented product and not the same as any other brand. Our formula is not duplicated by any other company. Making this assumption can be a deadly mistake. Not only are you wrong, but your statements could cause someone to buy these other products only to potentially create health problems and even death with their reptiles (which has happened already).

This is like saying that laundry detergent and hand dishwashing liquid are the same because they are both "soap". Try to soak your snake in powdered laundry detergent and see what the "active & inert" ingredients can cause. There are different isomers of permethrin which all have different toxicity levels as well as the synergists, surfactants and other inerts (which make up over 99% of the formula), many which are toxic to reptiles that are used in these other products. None of this is or has to be disclosed on the label.

Different, more toxic isomers are widely used in many products as they pose no risk to humans, mammals or birds as a rule, but they are definitely more toxic to reptiles. Most of these products also use chemicals such as Piperonyl butoxide in their formula, which is a synergist that modifies and increases the toxicity of the active in various ways. One will find that most formulations use this and/or other synergists as it is much cheaper than the active and creates a more lethal product.

Studies have been done, and products are marketed, showing that Piperonyl butoxide as well as other chemicals are definitely toxic to reptiles, regarding the killing of brown tree and other snakes, and improve the formula to do just that. You can do a search on these products used in the South Pacific and Indonesia that use various formulas to KILL snakes. They are packaged in high pressure containers (like a wasp & hornet spray) so you can hit the snake up to 20 feet away.

These products can be absolutely lethal to snakes. Many product labels can appear to be the same or very similar as Provent-a-mite as to the generic active, but they are very different products.

There are many other chemicals in these formulas that will never be made public and since the manufacture did not make any claims to the EPA (or on the label) that the product would be safe and effective on reptiles, no such studies or proof would be required. Many of these inerts can be potentially toxic to reptiles and since no tests or studies have ever been performed, no one knows. Since all formulas are proprietary and secret, no one will ever know what is really in the can and will only be sure that the product is OK to use with reptiles if that claim is specifically on the label. This is why it is a federal offense to sell, distribute, offer for sale, promote or use any pesticide for an unlabeled use. The EPA enforces this, as using a pesticide indiscriminately for a non tested use can have deleterious effects on the site, host and environment and they do not want any such problems to develop.

Also many of these products are designed to break down quickly, which will expose the mites and ticks to a sub-lethal dose, which can lead to(and has with other species of ectoparasites)creating a resistant strain of ectoparasites that would be difficult if not impossible to eradicate!

Call these companies and ask if their product is safe to use on reptiles, and to put it in writing and see what response you get. Many people have learned the hard way that these products are not the same formula as Provent-a-mite. Often, these products can cause chronic long term problems, so one never associates the demise of the animal with a mite treatment done previously as well as outright death of the reptile.

Provent-a-mite is the only product approved by the EPA and the USDA, specifically for use with reptiles (no other product can say this). Provent-a-mite is approved for the uses stated on our label for which such an approval would not have been granted without submitting the required efficacy and toxicity studies.

The EPA requires very detailed studies done by a specific set of protocols in order to register a formula for a specific use. These studies must follow certain guidelines and conform to such certifications as GLP (good laboratory practices) or equivalent. We spent 6 years and several tests/studies before we received EPA approval for our product to be used specifically on reptiles. This was after the approximately 10 years we spent developing the formula. We had to show that Provent-a-mite didn't hurt the reptile, had efficacy results per our claims and did not pose any risk or environmental hazards when used per the directions as set forth in our submittal.

Most of our studies, like any other company, contain proprietary information, so will never be released to the public. However, there are a few completed, non proprietary studies that either have been published or will be soon.

What follows is an excerpt from a paper that will be published in the near future in a recognized scientific journal. Until it is published, we can't provide any additional information.

"...However, it was realized that different formulations of acaricides contain different ingredients in addition to the active compound, some of which might be toxic to reptiles. For example, Piperonyl butoxide, added to some formulations as a synergist, has been associated with snake mortality.
Therefore, commercially available permethrin formulations were examined and only one, a patented formulation containing 0.5% permethrin called Provent-a-mite™(Pro Products, Mahopac, New York), was found which had been prepared specifically for use on reptiles and which had been marketed in the United States for several years as an acaricide for control of mites and ticks that feed on reptiles. The clinical effects of application of Provent-a-mite™ were studied on three species of reptiles by direct application to African spurred tortoises (Geochelone sulcata) and by application to the bedding of rosy boas (Lichanura trivirgata) and green iguanas (Iguana iguana), using on each occasion 10 times the recommended dosage every fifth day for a total of six applications. Despite the excessive doses of acaricides applied, no evidence of toxic reactions related to treatment with the permethrin formulation was found in any of the three species of reptiles treated, suggesting that Provent-a-mite™ is a safe product to use as an acaricide for control of ticks on tortoises, snakes and lizards..."

People are always making claims about various pesticides and state they are OK to use with reptiles when they have no knowledge as to what chemicals are even in the formula. Even with a product that lists the same "generic" active, the active can be a different toxicity and the remainder of the formula will always be a mystery. Just because one does not see any negative outward effects after using an off labeled product, certainly doesn't mean that it is not causing chronic health problems to the animal over the long term or creating other problems, such as the potential for resistant mites or other environmental damage.

No Pest strips were once considered safe (and some people still hang on to this theory), but after many years of our reptiles being guinea pigs, it was found that they are harmful, both acutely and chronically. Some of our leading vets, including Douglas Mader as well as several zoos have confirmed this. Unless the product has been specifically tested and approved for use by the USEPA, no one can state whether or not it can be harmful to a reptile.

Provent-a-mite, when used as directed, only costs about 50 cents per application to treat a 2' x 4' cage and does not require the time and expense to repeatedly cleaning and disinfect your cages as other methods do. When used as a preventative treatment to stop potentially disease carrying mites and ticks before they can infect and infest one's animals, it only costs about 5 cents for the average cage. It has an average shelf life of approximately 7 years.

Bob @ Pro Products
Pro Products

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