Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We are going to reptile show this weekend. We are interested in purchasing a box turtle. Will they sell young ones at these shows? We live in Louisiana, so I don't know if they have laws against keeping them. They were everywhere when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's. We have a nice area in the yard that I can make a home for it. I have a book about them and have been reading a lot about them. Any suggestions would be appreciated. We have a bearded dragon, so a lot of the veggies he is eating the turtle would eat also. Thanks

you may be unlikely to find any young ones with a carapace length under 4", due to federal regulation governing commercial sales in connection with a business. there may be private individuals that have rented space at such a show, that are not otherwise known as a "business" for federal commerce purposes, and eventhough such federal regulations do not apply to them, many mistakenly believe that it is "federal law" and that it applies to everyone. it does not. the federal government can only regulate "commerce" connected with a "business". this is why an individual, selling from his personal collection at a gun show, can sell a firearm without the paperwork that a licensed firearms dealer has to require.

that is not to say that the organizer or sponsors of the show will not prevent such sales based on their own understanding of the regs., or as a matter of policy preference for what goes on at their event. so for that reason alone you may not find any.

a young box turtle is best adopted from an individual breeder at his or her home, where you may see for yourself the conditions they are kept in, etc.; or from someone at a show who's operation you have seen before; or been referred to by a reliable source as being a reputable established breeder. actually that goes for any animal as far as I think.

Mick
-----
"A man that should call every thing by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy."

The Complete Works of Goerge Savile, First Marquess of Halifax, 1912.

I don't know about Louisiana Herp Shows but in Houston I saw many small turtles for sell. It is against the law for turtles smaller then 4 inches to be sold to anyone except into educational or zoological collections. But most sellers get around it by letting the buyers lie to them about the turtles going into an educational situation.

Let us know what you see at the show
-----
Tess
Kingsnake.com Forum Host

Tess, I respect the information you have put out in the past, but I have to disagree. it is not across the board illegal. the question of any illegality would hinge upon the requirement that you met the definition of a "business" for federal commerce purposes. I know a bit about herps...I know even more about law.

relevant excerpts:

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 21, Volume 8]
[Revised as of April 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 21CFR1240.62]

[Page 673-675]

TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS

CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES (CONTINUED)

PART 1240--CONTROL OF COMMUNICABLE DISEASES--Table of Contents

Subpart D--Specific Administrative Decisions Regarding Interstate Shipments

Sec. 1240.62 Turtles intrastate and interstate requirements.

(a) Definition. As used in this section the term "turtles" includes all animals commonly known as turtles, tortoises, terrapins, and all other animals of the order Testudinata, class Reptilia, except marine species (families Dermochelyidae and Chelonidae).

(b) Sales; general prohibition. Except as otherwise provided in this section, viable turtle eggs and live turtles with a carapace length of less than 4 inches shall not be sold, held for sale, or offered for any other type of commercial or public distribution.

(d) Exceptions. The provisions of this section are not applicable to:

(1) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs for bona fide scientific, educational, or exhibitional purposes, other than use as pets.
(2) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and viable turtle eggs not in connection with a business.
(3) The sale, holding for sale, and distribution of live turtles and turtle eggs intended for export only, provided that the outside of the shipping package is conspicuously labeled "for export only."
(4) Marine turtles excluded from this regulation under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this section and eggs of such turtles.

-----
"A man that should call every thing by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy."

The Complete Works of Goerge Savile, First Marquess of Halifax, 1912.