Reptile & Amphibian Forums

if a cage that is 36in by 17 inches by 18 inches i think it is a 40 gal breeder is it big enough for an adult male and female ball python.cause i had them in my 60 gal tank that used to be my boa's but my boa left they went into the 60 galon now im gaoin to get a new boa and am planning on moving them into the 40gal breeder. would that be alright?

>>if a cage that is 36in by 17 inches by 18 inches i think it is a 40 gal breeder is it big enough for an adult male and female ball python.cause i had them in my 60 gal tank that used to be my boa's but my boa left they went into the 60 galon now im gaoin to get a new boa and am planning on moving them into the 40gal breeder. would that be alright?

I use a 50 breeder for mine...but only for the few months of breeding and then they each have their own to themselves. Don't know if that is too crowded for a pair all the time.
Plus the stress may be too much for one or both.
Plus I know some folks that can't get theirs to breed after being kept together year 'round.
Just thoughts
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Sonya

>>if a cage that is 36in by 17 inches by 18 inches i think it is a 40 gal breeder is it big enough for an adult male and female ball python.cause i had them in my 60 gal tank that used to be my boa's but my boa left they went into the 60 galon now im gaoin to get a new boa and am planning on moving them into the 40gal breeder. would that be alright?

I use a 50 breeder for mine...but only for the few months of breeding and then they each have their own to themselves. Don't know if that is too crowded for a pair all the time.
Plus the stress may be too much for one or both in tighter quarters.
Plus I know some folks that can't get theirs to breed after being kept together year 'round.
Just thoughts
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Sonya

for my 2 yearling bps, they're in a 55 gallon tank, but next year i am buying a 6x2x2 cage for them like my corns are in. but most people think its not necessary, but my snakes like to move, and i like them to be comfortable

this is my corn terraria

this is where they are kept for now

I think that's about right for two full grown snakes. Becareful, though! If the enclosure is way too big for the size of the snake, they can become insecure and get stressed.

they do like to roam around...you're right. I think if you are going to have a very big cage you need to have many hidding spots that the snake can hide out of sight; then you will hardly see your snake. In the wild they do roam around, but they tend slither in places that the predators can get to them.

Actually, single snake per cage is better.

but i disagree in the single snake per tank my ball pythons in the cage they are in now love bein with each other they are always coild together or basking on their branch together.it seems they like each others company. i hope you dont take my disagreement the wrong way i realy apriciate everyones advice even if i dont agree.

Firstly, you're snakes do NOT "love" being in a tank together. Ball pythons are solitary animals, and are not communal. Secondly, If you would ever like to breed them, put them each in their own enclosure. I use, and would highly reccomend a 26x17x9 rubbermaid.

not to be a [bleep] or any thing but iv noticed that younger balls seem to perfure company i have 2 young balls in a 55 gal lots of hiding places and even after feeding i put them at seperte sides of the tank and whithin the first 5 minutes their curled up sum where together....and to remind everbody captivity isnt the wild and cb vs. wc differ greatly these days

"and to remind everbody captivity isnt the wild and cb vs. wc differ greatly these days"

Or better yet, PROVE? Is this your assumption or something that you know as fact. Pretty bold statement unless you know something we all don't.
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ok how do i put this..... cb reptiles (not just balls) are perfured over wc or even fc specimens for a reason. cb reptiles for a fact "tame" down easier then a wc reptile. Also balls are solitary animals in the wild and usually arnt found together unless its for breeding porpises, but in captivity (even in extremly large inclousers) its not uncommon for 2 balls to be curled up together.

If they're curled up together it's because they both prefer the temperature at that spot.

To suppose that they've developed some sort of affectionate social behavior just because they've been in captivity a couple of generations is pretty brain-dead.

Yes, I heard sometimes the they can be aggressive toward each other...I think it's like a territorial dispute and will bite each other.

And that's my point. There is no difference. If you are suggesting that CB Balls have undergone some sort of evolution to make them gregarious is captivity, that is more than brain-dead. No offense, but don't suggest such silly things here because a lot of newbees read this stuff and they don't need their heads filled with stuff that isn't true.
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ok quick question for every 1 thats a lil off topic but it will help me show the diffrence between cb and wc.... this relates to all reptiles... im using monitors as an example because i no the reaction of both wc and cb in this situation.....ok lets say u breed monitors um lets say croc monitors...u have 2 females both just laid their clutches, one is a cb and the other is a wc, which clutch of eggs would u perfure to collect (im other words which clutch would be less dangerous to collect) ..... i think that speaks a few words

oh and for the aggression between ball pythons iv owned about 8 wc juvinale balls are did show aggression to each other ever once in a while..... and iv owned 13 cb none of which ever showed aggression to each other!!!!

CB all the way, I am not disagreeing! Check out this thread if you don't believe me:

forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=74713,75729

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>>oh and for the aggression between ball pythons iv owned about 8 wc juvinale balls are did show aggression to each other ever once in a while..... and iv owned 13 cb none of which ever showed aggression to each other!!!!

Snakes are stressing each other only when they are chasing or biting or whatever overt incidences of 'aggression' you see as a human. They are shoving each other out of the way, laying on each other and getting in each other's face very subtly but causeing STRESS none the less. To compare croc monitors and BPs is silly...you might as well throw my Bullmastiff in for comparison as well.
CB reptiles learn from hatching that people aren't the preditors that WC animals think of them as. It has reduced their stress and the rate they defend themselves against a preceived threat. You haven't altered genetics in a couple generations. Temperament is one of the more difficult attributes to fix genetically. You are just dealing with environmental influences on the same genes.
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Sonya

tell me this... in my tank the two ends of the enclouser are the same basking temp the middle is the cooler part.... both sides are identical to each other..... when the snakes bask why dont they seperate... and no they dont go to the same basking spot every day, they differ in there basking spot each day. Every second together ... now u explain that!!!

ONE event does not make it fact. Not even close. Any biology class will show you that copious amounts of data are needed to just attempt a theory!! And you see your BP's together and all of a sudden that ONE event dwarves the millions of events that happens in nature and is considered fact?

That's insane. Not to mention dumb.

And a lot more factors go into a BP hiding than temperature and humidity. Sightlines, being able to wedge the body (thigmorphism or something like that), light levels, deepness, etc etc etc. Don't just take the temperature and assume that 2 BP's "like" being together! Ha ha, i just about fell over in my chair when I read that!!! LOL!

BP's don't carry the mechanisms for emotions such as "like" and "comfort" and such. So don't put these qualities on them. Its dabgerous for new people to read.
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>>tell me this... in my tank the two ends of the enclouser are the same basking temp the middle is the cooler part.... both sides are identical to each other..... when the snakes bask why dont they seperate... and no they dont go to the same basking spot every day, they differ in there basking spot each day. Every second together ... now u explain that!!!

Since you have already used cross species references....perhaps a more common understanding will make the point.
Okay, I have two female border collies. Birth dates are within a couple days of each other even though all other factors are different. Temperaments are drastically different. One is from a working line breeder and the other a rescue that was originally bought at a pet shop. But, two same size, same sex, same age BCs. They are together ALL the time! They are within 5 feet of each other 24/7. Do they like each other that well? Heck no! One is always trying to control the other. One is the police matron dog of the house and is heading off and nudging and eyeing the other. And the other is shoving back out of stubborn similaritys. This is what the snakes are doing. (without the sheep)
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Sonya

in this hide or that place are best for them and they are actually 'competing' for that space??? Something to think about. If one starts getting pushy you may find that one starts eating less reliably and being stressed by finding someone in the way every time he wants a nice spot to bask.
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Sonya

They were male & female housed together in a large enclosure since they were hatchlings. Finally the least competitive of the two (the male) resorted to the less favorable hides and went off feed for 4 months. Three months after being moved to his own enclosure and regaining confidence, he started feeding again and has continued doing well. They now breed when the male is introduced after proper cylcing and returned to his own cage after a few days with her.
Paul

Sheesh.

I have four that are all roughly 3' long in a 240 gallon tank, and they seem to like it, they're constantly coiled.

What is this "seems to like it" bit? I hear it ALL the time and I can't figure it out. Do they wag their tails? Do they tell you that they like it? What is it in their actions that lets you come to this conclusion?

Its beyond me.
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Its hilarious to imagine a bp looking up at you and wagging its tail....
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Josh
My Email

Tongue hanging out, panting, nuzzling you......
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Might be RI if its panting haha.

Missed that one Delta.

LMAO!!!

As long as you have a cage of those dimensions for EACH of your snakes.

Don't house your snakes together. There's a million reasons not to.
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y dont u just list 15 of them i would love to here them!!!

Actually, instead of Jeff wasting his time pointing out 15 VERY VALID reasons why you should not house two BPS together, why don't you do what you want to do, and stop asking questions, that you OBVIOUSLY already have the answers to. BTW if you had picked up JUST ONE book on the husbandry of BPS, your otherwise uneducated question might not have needed to be asked. Best of luck, and I truly, truly mean that.

i never had question .. i dont ask what i already know

Have you heard the Sutherland? Ask them if they house any of their balls together?
In my opinion, which I'm basing on things I've read and things that I know large breeders do, I feel that snakes should never be housed together. Here are some points that I keep in mind and reasons why I do not house snakes together.
1. The presence of another animal in their space represents competition, competition leads to stress.
2. Stress leads to loss of appetite and or disease.
3. If one sick gets sick they can both get sick.
4. How do you know who is defecating and who is not?
5. Snakes are not social animals so although captivity its self is not natural forcing two animals to live together is even more unnatural.
Cheers,
Trevor

i agree to an extent that SOME snakes should be kept together but under the right conditions balls and alot of other snakes can be kept together (givin the right space). the tank i have is 3 times the size for a single snake so i chose to house 2.. they have there own space own again identical basking areas hiding spots and cooler spots at each side of the tank... to give u a better idea wut my tank looks like it looks like its split right down the middle each side of the tank is identical the only thing that keeps the tank from being 2 seperate enclousers is a sheet of glass... its up to the snakes to be near each other and wow they do... and iv never had problems houseing cb together just wc...... hmmmmmmmmm

DECADES of reptile keeping means nothin to your setup and all the literature is wrong and all the big breeders are doing it wrong and everyone should keep their BP's together because they like the company.

I wish I could type sarcastic. Oh wait, I just did.
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that is about how ridiculous your post sound....
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Josh
My Email

Why is it that when we TELL you that the sky is blue, SHOW you that the sky is blue, GIVE you 10 reasons why the sky is blue, that you CONTINUE to argue that the sky is GREEN??!!!

I'm gonna use that one for years Mykee! LOL!