Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How exactly do I find out the laws about Texas Horned Lizards (at least in North Carolina)? (Please no over-inflated ego responses, thank you)

"over inflated ego response"? what's that supposed to mean?

check you state capitol house website for game statutes online. or call you fish & game/parks & wildlife dept. for the relevant sections of the statute law or department regs.

Mick
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"A man that should call every thing by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy."

The Complete Works of Goerge Savile, First Marquess of Halifax, 1912.

hahaha, sorry! it just seems like a few people severely look down upon people posessing them, and i came about them in a very innocent way, and I honestly don't know the laws about them, so I didn't want anyone automatically assuming I acquired them illegaly!! people seem quick to judge in this forum, just tryin to cover my ass, lol sorry!! (no harm meant )

I understand. I came by one a few years ago quite innocently myself and I'm in Texas. I've never picked a healthy THL up from the wild and kept it. I have an old buddy and another aquaintance who are parks and wildlife/game enforcement officers. they know what my intentions are with them if I do find one in need of help. they also just seem to be more interested in deer hunting and fishing violations, where the bulk of the state fine revenues come from.

many of the people on this forum know each other personally. it is a small circle in this field. there are frequent disagreements. but anybody who has an interest and desire to learn about, or preserve horned lizards, I think can't be all that bad. we can work together when something needs to be done. but, I am not known for shying from judgement on a moral or ethical wrong either. sometimes I am wrong, and I'm open to debate or yielding on whatever I say if in error. I say "judge, and prepare to be judged on your actions". the fate of your eternal soul is a different matter, that is none of my business.

as the THL are probably not yet classed as "indigenous" to the east, I would guess that they may not be protected as in other states. they may be regarded as a "non-game species" though, which would limit what you could do with them. just a best guess so far. I have never actually researched the statute law and regs. out there for THL. but I have a bit of background in research of that type. so if I get a chance this weekend, I can look over it and post back on what it says in your state.

the most important thing, though, is that right now you are keeping it in a proper manner with regard to it's care. they require certain complicated knowledge and some equipment to be kept healthy and less stressed in captivity. do you have any experience with reptiles? is this lizard injured in any way? I would also be interested in how you came about it and where? you are the first I have talked to in the Carolinas with one. they are my primary interest, along with Solare, so I'd like to know more. I suggest reading the messages on the forum to see what I'm talking about...and go to Cable's site:
www.phrynosoma.com
as well as
www.texancultures.utsa.edu/crossroads/dec_2003/Horned_Toad_Webliography.htm
www.digimorph.org/resources/horned.phtml
www.zo.utexas.edu/faculty/pianka/phryno.html
animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Phrynosoma_cornutum.html

Mick
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"A man that should call every thing by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy."

The Complete Works of Goerge Savile, First Marquess of Halifax, 1912.

Yes, I have experience with lizards, I have an african fat-tailed gecko, a leopard gecko, a beardie, a ball python and these two little guys, I also work at Petsmart, and I have been researching the little guys and was conveniently researching them BEFORE i came by them. The reptile and exotic animal show came up here to Raleigh a few weeks ago. They were selling them at the show but i didn't get one, though I considered it, I already knew they ate harvester ants. However, when I went into work the next day, a guy came in and said he'd bought two and the people had told him they were really easy and ate crickets, now knowing this wasn't true I told him and set him up with stuff and the lifesciences website--horned lizard food and whatnot. It ended up that he couldn't take them in his new apt and I adoopted them (for forty dollars, as that is what he paid for them) and now i have them set up in my room, with a basking bulb, uv and 500 evil little harvester ants (bastards) which they eat like CRAZY, they also have thick enough sand that they can dig and bury themselves to their hearts content, they don't mind being handled, mostly don't even puff up, they actually kind of sweet to me and when i lay on my bed they like to sit there and stare at me (that's why i call them my pervy lizards) they seem to be doing great, they eat like champs, bury themselves at night, drink water when i mist them, sun themselves on the rocks, i have pictures of them up too (and they fall asleep when you pet their heads) BUT i digress so yes, i adopted them from a guy who purchased them at the reptile show, they are unharmed, two males, get along great and are doing great (it seems ) I just want to make sure that everything was legal and double check my research on their care. feel free to email me! thanks so much for your help, i really really appreciate it (honestly) and i would love to stay in contact about them

I'm so glad to hear you are a bit ahead of the game and already knew something of them before hand...but I saw the pictures, and oh my god, do we need to talk! these guys look SEVERELY emaciated! do you have any other pics available?
I have several years keeping Cornutum, and several more observing them in the wild. Cornutum are usually very spry, and high strung. it sounds as if they are lethargic due to health issues. I'm sure these are wild caught? you should have a bit more trouble than that, keeping two on a bed still for any lenght of time. especially after changing environments. believe me, I know. a healthy Cornutum won't stay still very long before tearing off through the house! just make sure they keep getting plenty of harvester ants and UVB.
my email is: fireside3@hotmail.com
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"A man that should call every thing by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy."

The Complete Works of Goerge Savile, First Marquess of Halifax, 1912.

Oh no! they don't sit on the bed with me! they are BESIDE my bed!!! lol they also run around the tank a lot and dig and do silly things, they are pretty active, but they also like to bask. They eat like champs and they can puff up like all the pictures i've seen, but they seem to just deflate when relaxed! They are certainly not starving, they eat sooo many ants. I almost think they may not be wild caught--they seem pretty used to people. I do have other pictures where they're all puffed up, but they've never done the whole blood squirty thing, so that's one reason i'm not sure they're wild caught-used to people and such. And yes, they eat a lot of ants. and no, I do not handle them much. i let them just kinda be.

ok better pic, this one looks much healthier than I thought, but...it's not a Texas Horned Lizard! if the other one looks just like this, somebody didn't know what they were talking about when you got them.
this is a Platyrhinos ( Desert Horned Lizard ). the odds increase dramatically that these were obtained legally, but they were probably also wild caught. the laws in your state wouldn't cover these at all unless there was something limiting importation, or they were somehow obtained illegally to begin with. i.e. gathered without a permit from an area where a collection permit is required.
that would be pretty hard to establish now, and, in a state where they don't even occur naturally, there would probably be no legal complications or even interest of your game officials in them.
not all HL's display the blood squirting towards humans. so that doesn't really establish that they aren't wild caught. they probably are. the THL may be the most well known for this behavior, but, I have picked up several who did not do this. it is mainly used as a defense against canine predators.

Mick
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"A man that should call every thing by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy."

The Complete Works of Goerge Savile, First Marquess of Halifax, 1912.