Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Another 04 that is growing nicely. Tom Stevens

These pics are very close to his true colors Tom Stevens

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Tom, That snake does not look "axanthic" to me... Meaning it is not the blue/ blue-gray that my axanthics are. The post that Steve made earlier shows what I think are axanthics.

That being said, I know NOTHING about what "axanthic" really even means. I have read that there are two types: The Lloyd Lemke line and the New England line.

Can you shed some light on this for me (us).

By the way - that snake looks really good and healthy.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com
peterjolles@eastcoastcolubrids.com

Hey Peter, he is as Axanthic as they get. He came from Tim Ricks and is possible het for White Sided. I am not sure which strain my pair are, I like both and the price was right so seeing I wanted White Sides and couldn't quite afford them yet I bought these. There's no trace of yellow or red anywhere on these. One strain gets lighter and whiter and the other holds more of a blue purple looking sheen. I saw both lines as adults in the same cage in Tim Ricks display cage and they seemed very similar as adults, but like Floridana in general there's a lot of variation in them, and that includes variation within morphs too. Tom Stevens
ps as a hatchling he had more of a waxy looking shene

that is a nice axanthic for sure, very cool that he is het for white side. that is a neat morph, especially watching them grow and change.
i looked through dr. bernard bechtel's book on pattern and color variants in reptiles. from what it seems in his words, there is no particular cell that produces blue pigment in reptiles. he says there are scales called iridophores, depending on their number and orientation- the way they stack up- you get various colors like blue (dependent on species?) when light strikes the scales. that would make some sense as i had a nice axanthic female that looked very blue under certain conditions but under bright sunlight looked black/white. i also notice in juveniles when the blue is most prominent at least some of the blue is due to the translucence of the scales and is caused by innards.
after many tries,i still don't know what the difference is between a llemke axanthic and a new england axanthic. the genes are compatible when bred together and in a series of unlabelled pictures on this forum a way back there, i couldn't guess which were which. some people associate "nicer" looking axanthics with the New england label, but there are just as many knockout llemke animals available out there. i have traded away some dull new england axanthics...
out breed any axanthic to a really fine normal with little pattern and through selective breeding the second/third generation offspring from the hets may be some of the best axanthics you'll ever see.

long live brooksi/floridana!
dave b

Hi Dave, I like to imagine a true blue colubrid. You would think one would have appeared in Corn snakes by now? Blue Beaties are decent but a bright blue would be outrageous. Purple and Lavender are great looking, and it is funny how used to them we have become? Kind of like it is no big deal???[That should be a topic to post about on its own!!] LOL! My pair are only possible het for White Side. I had my eye on a nice very purple yearling pair in daytona last year. A good 3 foot long and heavily bodied for 300 bucks. Tim had a small hatchling pair of Axanthics.........which I did not have at the time and I wanted Axanthics for my collection too. Since I have the White Sided Speck I figured it was a better deal to take the hatchlings and hope for White Sided Brooks instead of buying the het for nothing Axanthics. I still feel very happy about the choice I made. What I need but won't be getting anytime soon are Ghosts, Snows, Lavs, and Sulphurs. I need to buy too many cages for now, need to get everything I have in permamnent quarters first off. I sure would like to some Ghost pics Dave. ttyl Tom Stevens

Axanthic rough greens are blue. Not exactly the most popular snake in the hobby (rough greens) but if you want a true blue that's the way to go.

kk

Here's another paradox blue animal. I would consider this blue as well. In person, he is a sight to behold. I bred him to an F1 female I produced in '01 that has a nice blue undertone to her. Eggs are due to hatch one week from today and I'm excited to see how they look in a year. Wish me BLUE.

Brandon Osborne

You are one lucky guy. I have never owned a Chondro. I can see myself having some in the future. Won't all the babies be traditional yellow and reds? Or does the blue influence show up early in Chondros? Good luck with that project Tom Stevens

Thanks Tom. I've got more chondros now than brooksi. lol. All of the babies from this pairing should, theoretically, be red. Most high blue animals are hatched as red babies and the best tend to be very dark or oddly patterned. This project is in it's infancy for me, but folks like Trooper Walsh and Greg Maxwell have proven to produce genetic blue lines that are spectacular to say the least. Many people advertise blue females, but most of the time, these females are only blue due to hormonal changes that occur during breeding. Sometimes the female will go blue and back to green after laying eggs...others will stay blue after laying. Males on the other hand are not considered to undergo the hormonal changes that females do, and are considered genetic.....whether recessive, co-dom, or of a typical locality phenotype with zero implication of recessive or co-dom genetics. This male was raised from an import baby. I just got lucky enough to find him at the right moment......and at a great price. Here's another cool animal that I produced in my '03 clutch.....and really dumb for letting it go. lol.

Brandon Osborne

I'm certainly no expert, but Tom's snake looks to be Lemke line? Steve's animal below looks more like a NE strain. Both are nice though.

kk

My 04 male pictured below was purchased from Brandon Osborne, which he said came from Rainer/Bluerosy's stock. Not sure I totally understand NE vs Llemke, but I know Brandon has a Llemke strain adult that is as bluish as any NE out there. So I think both strains can produce some awesome animals.

Steve

True. True. Here's a pic of that male. I produced this male in 97 from animals that came directly from Lloyd himself. I'll have to take some pics of my other adult axanthics. I also have an axanthic pos het ghosts from Lemke lines that is one of the best looking axanthics I've seen.....and she's only 8 months old.

Brandon Osborne

That's a good looking Axthanic Brooksi. How large is your Axanthic? My 04 is around 24 inchs. I'm just amazed at your below post at how large your 04 Peanut Butter Brooks is at around three feet. I thought my 04 was large. Wow.

Steve

Thanks a lot. I love the Axanthics. I really love all the morphs and of course normal looking wild type is still awesome too. It's always nice to have a knockout baby but with Brooksi chances are it will turn into a nice adult any which way. I may actually part with a project or two and get even more Brooksi. I could talk for a week straight about these snakes and not run out of things to discuss,,,,just one of the best snakes a keeper can keep. Tom Stevens